Help needed, Poorhouses/date of death

[Scottygirl56]

Hello everyone. I am a new poster here and have been doing my family tree off and on for a few years now. Lately I have become stuck on my ggg grandfather, George Pringle - watchmaker born 1791 approx in Morpeth. He appears on the 1851 census but on his daughter's marriage cert dated 1852 he is shown as deceased. Then on his son's death cert in 1855 he is also shown as deceased. When his wife died in 1857 her death certificate says "wife of a clock maker journeyman". Not widow of... but wife of. We have also found a death for a George Pringle in 1858 at the Edinburgh Poorhouse. The names of the parents on this fit with family names.

Question: has anyone found that people have lied about the death of someone? Why would he have been in the poorhouse if he had family? It is so hard to get the true picture of a person by just reading names on a certificate. Also he appears nowhere that I can find on the 1841 census - either Scotland or England. If anyone who can shed any light on this I would much appreciate it.

Lynda

[nelmit]

I see a Susan Pringle married in 1852 and her father was George so is this them in 1841?

Piece: SCT1841/476 Place: Denny -Stirlingshire Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: Denny Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Denny
Folio: 0 Page: 20
Address: Stirling Street

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
PRINGLE George M 25 Watchmaker Outside Census County (1841)
PRINGLE Christian F 25 Stirlingshire
PRINGLE Agnes F 5 Stirlingshire
PRINGLE Susan F 3 Stirlingshire
PRINGLE William M 1 Stirlingshire

Regards,
Annette

[Scottygirl56]

Hello, this was who we think is his son to his first marriage to Susan Winter in 1814. So far we think he had Isabella, Susan and George to this marriage. He then remarried Ann Robertson but I can find no evidence of the death of the first wife or marriage to the second. Clearly not a good time for documentation.

[nelmit]

This George Pringle is in prison at Edinburgh in 1851 for stealing a watch which had been left with him for repair. If this is your George he was sentenced to 7 years in 1850 (seems a bit harsh). Maybe it was a case of 'he was dead' rather than say he was in prison.

Sorry just read your post and see I have the wrong George .........must read posts more closely!

Regards,
Annette

[SarahND]

Hi Annette,
George Sr. was in Edinburgh in 1851, indexed on Ancestry as "Bingle"

Cheers,
Sarah

[Falkyrn]

Information on the records is unfortunately only as trustworthy as the people supplying it ... so it is entirely possible that the details were changed. I have one where the bride states both of her parents were deceased which was a little premature as they held on for another 25 years

As regards the Poorhouse - There could be a number of reasons why he was there for example :
perhaps the family couldn't cope with him through infirmity or senility.
Illness - in the days before the NHS medical care had to be paid for unless you were admitted into the hospitals attached to the Poorhouse

[SarahND]

Hi all,
Is this Ann and the children in 1841? (There are a John age 15 and a Robert age 11 with them in 1851)

1841
133 Cowgate, Edinburgh Old Greyfriars
Ann Pringle, 30, born Midlothian, occupation: "Sellpie Wood"
Susan Pringle, 15, born Scotland
John Pringle, 5, born Midlothian
Robertson Pringle, 1, born Midlothian

Regards,
Sarah

[Scottygirl56]

Thanks everyone - you are indeed very clever and on to it!! Unfortunately yes, I do have all this info. I do think the Ann Pringle at Cowgate in 1841 is my Ann but no idea where George is. Why would she be selling fire wood? Odd.

So it is not unreasonable to suspect that family would lie and say he is dead? We suspect he was a drunk due to records found regarding his son who was transported. Lorna has found a record that she is going to recheck sometime at Edinburgh regarding a George Pringle keeping a disorderly house and being fined 20/-. With regard to the two deaths, it was the son (my gg grandfather) who was the witness for them on the certificates. We are thinking maybe that George was in the poorhouse for being a drunk? Would sound right to anyone. I do hope I am not doing the man a disservice though in case I have it wrong and he was actually away working hard somewhere!

[Scottygirl56]

Hi Annette,
George Sr. was in Edinburgh in 1851, indexed on Ancestry as "Bingle"

Cheers,
Sarah

Different George to mine but yes, I have noticed the "Bingles"... I do have my George for 1851 so do know he was alive then. The death at the poorhouse does not state any occupation or family other than to say that he was a widower (which he would have been then) and his parent's names of George and Isabella nee Brown.

My main problem is trying to establish a definite link between George b 1791 in Morpeth, the George who died in 1858 at the poorhouse and the George who was transported in 1850s to Australian (he died soon after). Both Georges were clock/watch makers which must be a clue plus they both had children called Susan. Probably enough to make the link?

[SarahND]

[ Different George to mine but yes, I have noticed the "Bingles"... I do have my George for 1851 so do know he was alive then.

So this was not your George? Where was he then?

1851
Hardwell Close, Edinburgh St Cuthberts
George Bingle, 60, Head, born Morpeth, Clock Maker
Ann Bingle, 50, Wife, born Edinbr
John Bingle, 15, Son, born Edinbr, Type Founder
Robert Bingle, 11, Son, born Edinbr, At School
Isabella Bingle, 28, Daughter, born Edinbr, Servant
Robert Elder, 54, Lodger, born Edinbr, Journy Tanner
Jan Kelly, 49, Lodger, born Edinbr, Hawker

All the best,
Sarah