Married two different men on same day!??!

[saxonearth]

Hi all, new to the forum, so hope this is the best spot to post this question...
I have my ggggrandfather WILLIAM BINNIE, marrying MARY MILLAR, d. of THOMAS MILLAR, on 9 Dec 1791 at Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian. There is also a record of their marriage on 14 Feb 1794, this time at Cramond, Midlothian. I assume this might have been an clandestine marriage originally? Anyway, my real problem is that by cross-checking MARY MILLAR on the LDS site, she also appears as having married THOMAS AITKEN on 09 Sep 1791, this time in South Leith, Midlothian. Her father is listed again as THOMAS MILLAR.
My question is, at first glance this would seem to be some sort of transcription error; but I'm not sure how this could have happened, given the two locations. I'm just starting on my scottish genealogy, so I'm pretty novice at these records and resources. I guess the only way to really check it would be to order the microfilms, and view the actual records at a LDS center? Is there any other explanation, or resource I could use to verify this information?

[Russell]

Hi Saxonearth and a warm welcome to

This is probably as good a forum spot as any.
There are a few possible explanations. Firstly the Cramond and St Cuthberts entries. My initial feeling was that the Cramond entry was most likely a correct record of the event with a slip of the pen or mistranscription occurring when the Cramond record was handed over for inclusion in the St Cuthbert records.
St Cuthberts was the main church for a wide area around Edinburgh but not for the city itself. It embraced several smaller places who submitted their records to St Cuthberts. If the Clerk to the Church couldn't read the scribbled note he was handed there is every chance he could record the wrong date Keep in mind that weddings were not carried out in churches back then. They were more likely to take place in the home of the bride or some other informal venue. All that was required for a religious ceremony was a minister. This was at a time when two people could declare themselves married - with or without witnesses and that was a legally binding contract. It wasn't a 'clandestine' marriage. It had all the force of law. If they wished it recorded they had to approach the Kirk Session in their parish and state their case. Probably be admonished and a record would be made in the church records.
The second entry for Leith didn't surprise me since there must be quite a few Mary Millars whose Dad happened to be named Thomas.They are relatively common names and the Water of Leith which runs through what became Edinburgh New Town was lined with mills of many sorts and Millar/Miller was a very common surname. Cramond is only a mile or two along the coast of the river Forth but they were separate communities. Cramond mainly farming; South Leith was fishing and trading ships.
The problem with OPR (Old Parochial Records) is the lack of information they offer. Unless the brides father was reasonably wealthy he would not be mentioned in some records so it can be difficult, if not impossible to establish definitive relationships using the OPR alone.
Another problem can be actually reading the detail from old records since they were handwritten and there was no requirement about what details needed to be included. Each Clerk or Minister put down what they thought was sufficient and may even have used abbreviations or local spellings of place or family names which only they could understand later.
Very frustrating for future generations like us.

Russell

[AndrewP]

Hi Saxonearth,

I have taken a look at the three marriage entries in the OPRs that you mention above. All of these documents have been digitally scanned can be viewed on line at http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk on a pay per view basis.

The entry in St Cuthbert's OPR dated 16-Sep-1794 refers to a clandestine marriage on 09-Dec-1791 in Dean, which is in the north-west area of St Cuthbert's parish (towards Cramond). The record shows that in 1794 they were compeared (called, in a manner similar to being called to appear in court) by the Kirk Session, where they declared that they had been married clandestinely on 19-Dec-1791, for which they showed documents. The documents showed that both were single up to the time of their marriage. The session rebuked, exhorted and dismissed the couple. This document says the couple were both resident in Dean.

The entry in the Cramond OPR dated 14-Feb-1794 says that they paid money for their entry in the register having been married at West Church. West Church was another name applied to St Cuthbert's parish church. My feeling is to interpret this to mean that they were married within the parish of the West Church, rather than within the building of the West Church. This document says that William was of Cramond Parish, and Mary was of St Cuthbert's parish. I would take that to mean that these were the parishes of their births.

The entry in South Leith parish (mainly to the north-east of St Cuthbert's parish) OPR dated 09-Sep-1791 looks to have been a different Mary Millar (daughter of a different Thomas Millar). I would agree with Russell that there were many people of these names, so this is coincidental to your Mary Millar. The occupations of the fathers were also different to one another.

All the best,

AndrewP

[trish1]

If you wanted to see the records - which as Russell mentions, often contain little information above what is on the index, you can also see them on http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
It is a pay to view site - but prices are very reasonable - compared to costs in other countries for BMD records. Having a Mary Millar/er in my family history - I can well agree with Russell that there are many around Scotland. My Mary - born c. 1821 - has no surviving baptism record (all her siblings were recorded - sigh) - but I found many other Mary Millars in my search.

The other items that may help your search - and may or may not be on the baptism record - are the occupation of the bride's father and the location of same - also the location of each of the couple. Note that if you have the same couple married in different locations on similar dates - these records are usually for banns - and may or may not include the date/location of the marriage itself. When a couple lived in two different parishes - banns were usually recorded in both.

So - while I was typing - Andrew has checked the records - finding different occupations for the fathers - and the Kirk session details - sometimes the OPRs can be very helpful.

Trish

[saxonearth]

Wow! Thank you all so much for your thoughtful replies!

I had thought that two marriages the same day with brides of the same name/father's name was too much of a coincidence, but I guess it's not, really. I'm frustrated because I made the mistake of assuming that about 12 different trees on ancestry.com were correct, and incorporated them into my database. I can see how everyone does that, without really verifying facts, and it becomes 'urban legend', when in fact it looks to me like all of those trees are also incorrect...

The only verified fact I had to go on were later census records for my WILLIAM BINNIE's son, also William, after he moved south to Hampshire, which listed him as born in Leith.
It sounds like there is at least enough information from the filmed records to make it worth a look, so I'll ante up and get those. The LDS records indicate two sons named William born in North Leith to WILLIAM BINNIE and MARY MILLAR; one in 1798, and the other in 1807 (which matches my records), so maybe if I can get the birth records, I can figure out THAT puzzle!!

Thank you all again for your help; if genealogy was too easy, it wouldn't be as much fun, I guess

[AndrewP]

A parent search on the online IGI gives the following as children of William Binnie and Mary Miller

Thomas Binnie
christening: 29 Sep 1794 SAINT CUTHBERTS, EDINBURGH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
parents: William Binnie, Mary Miller

William Binnie
christening: 21 Dec 1798 , NORTH LEITH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
parents: William Binnie, Mary Miller

Alexander Binnie
christening: 24 Nov 1803 , NORTH LEITH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
parents: William Binnie, Mary Miller

William Binnie
christening: 21 Jun 1807 , NORTH LEITH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
parents: William Binnie, Mary Miller

Repeating the same search on ScotlandsPeople gives one more child:
Mary Binnie, 20 Aug 1801, Leith North

The online IGI has a fair number of parishes where only the male births / christenings are listed, so it is not uncommon for some more children (normally females) can be found by doing the same search on ScotlandsPeople.

All the best,

AndrewP

[LesleyB]

Also, not unusual to have more than one William - it would usually suggest that the first child with that name probably died before the second one came along (but not 100% proof as it has been known for two children in the same family to have the same name...!)

Best wishes
Lesley