Last throw of the dice

[Geoff Rogers]

I have been on a mission to trace which Ann McDougal is my ancestor (another thread). I have drawn a blank on various leads and have just one other avenue to explore before I put this issue on hold. In 1861 and 1871 a Hellen Fergusson was residing with with William and Ann, see this picture - http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... fullsize=1

By 1881 William and Ann have moved to Coupar Angus and Hellen is no longer with them. I did a search on SP and there were a few possibles and as I had my last 5 credits available I chose one but was unlucky.

I was hoping that there might be some information on the death certificate to give me a clue how she was related to Ann.

One other clue is the birthplace given by Ann in the 1871 census could possibly be Lurglommen which is on the opposite side of Loch Tay to the birthplace of my proposed Ann born 1828 to Hugh and Catherine. There is a Helen Ferguson in the 1851 census at Croftmartig, Kenmore which looks like it's adjacent to Lurglommen. None of the names with her ring any bells.

Many Thanks for looking

Regards
Geoff

[isk]

Hello Geoff,
I'm going to the Genealogy Centre at the Mitchell Library on Wednesday 11 February and would be happy to look up a death certificate for you. What is the name and date span I am looking at? If you already have the info let me know. Isk

[Geoff Rogers]

Hello Geoff,
I'm going to the Genealogy Centre at the Mitchell Library on Wednesday 11 February and would be happy to look up a death certificate for you. What is the name and date span I am looking at? If you already have the info let me know. Isk

Hello Isk

Thanks for your kind offer, I searched with the following criteria:-
Surname: "FERGUS*ON"; Surname Option: Wildcard;
Forename: "*EL*EN"; Forename Option: Wildcard;
Sex: "Any";
Year From: 1870; Year To: 1890;
Age From: 70; Age To: 90; Include Unrecorded Ages: Off;
Birth Year: 1800; Birth Year Range: 5;

This gave 19 results of which 5 were in Perth. I chose the one at Blairgowrie which is about 6 miles from Cargill but that was not correct. As I could not find her in the 1881 census I ignored the one in 1882 at Cargill which may have been slightly foolish.

• 01 1880 1800 FERGUSON ELLEN GALT F 80 ALLOA (CLACKMANNAN) /CLACKMANNAN 465/00 0188
  02 1870 1800 FERGUSON HELEN F 70 CALLANDER /PERTH 336/00 0033
  03 1871 1798 FERGUSON HELEN CRAWFORD F 73 FALKIRK LANDWARD /STIRLING 479/02 0041
  04 1872 1801 FERGUSON HELEN SPENCE F 71 NEWINGTON EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/05 0526
  05 1873 1800 FERGUSON HELEN F 73 DALBEATTIE /KIRKCUDBRIGHT 864/00 0025
  06 1874 1795 FERGUSON HELEN HAMILTON F 79 GREENOCK OLD OR WEST /RENFREW 564/03 0184
  07 1875 1798 FERGUSON HELEN THOMSON F 77 BLAIRGOWRIE /PERTH 335/00 0022
  08 1875 1798 FERGUSON HELEN JOHNSTON F 77 CLACKMANNAN /CLACKMANNAN 466/00 0020
  09 1876 1798 FERGUSON HELEN TELFORD F 78 LOGIE (PERTH) /PERTH 374/00 0031
  10 1877 1802 FERGUSON HELEN MCLEAN F 75 HUTCHESONTOWN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/11 0025
  11 1878 1804 FERGUSON HELEN WEST F 74 STOBHILL /MIDLOTHIAN 698/0B 0027
  12 1878 1798 FERGUSON HELEN WINTON F 80 ARNGASK /PERTH 404/00 0004
  13 1880 1804 FERGUSON HELEN BLACK F 76 OLD MONKLAND (MIDDLE DISTRICT) /LANARK 652/02 0041
  14 1882 1802 FERGUSON HELEN MORRISON F 80 KINNING PARK GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/14 0275
  15 1882 1805 FERGUSON HELEN GRAHAM F 77 CARGILL /PERTH 338/00 0014
  16 1884 1802 FERGUSON HELEN DOBSON F 82 BURNTISLAND /FIFE 411/00 0100
  17 1877 1797 FERGUSON HELEN ANN BAIRD F 80 ST ROLLOX GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/06 0091
  18 1870 1795 FERGUSSON HELEN MURPHY F 75 CUMBERNAULD /DUNBARTON 495/00 0020
  19 1878 1800 FERGUSSON HELEN COLLIE F 78 PETERCULTER /ABERDEEN 231/00 0006

Many Thanks

Geoff

[isk]

Hello Geoff

Assume parents names are what you need not cause of death etc. Will be in touch. Isk.

[Geoff Rogers]

Hello Geoff

Assume parents names are what you need not cause of death etc. Will be in touch. Isk.

Yes and the informant if possible.

Many Thanks

Geoff

[isk]

Hello Geoff
Here are the parents and informants from your list.
465/00. 0188 Ellen Ferguson Died: 11 November 1880
Father: Alexander Galt. Mother: Ellen McNaughton. Informant: John Ferguson - Son

336/00 0033. Helen Ferguson. Died: 3 December 1870
Father: John Ferguson. Mother: Janet Ferguson. Informant: Christine Gow - Niece

479/02. 0041. Helen Ferguson. Died: 22 March 1871
Father: James Crawford. Mother: name illegible Roberts. Informant: A Ferguson - Son

685/05 0526 Helen Ferguson. Died: 22 June 1872
Father: James Spence. Mother: name illegible Morgan. Informant: Duncan Ferguson - Son

864/00. 0025. Helen Ferguson. Died: 10 April 1873
Father: Robert Ferguson. Mother: Jane Chrystal. Informant: William McCreadie - Brother in law

564/03. 0025. Helen Ferguson. Died: 20 February 1875
Father: John Hamilton. Mother: Marion McLean. Informant: Alex Ferguson - Son

335/00. 0022. Helen Ferguson. Died: 20 February 1875
Father: Alexander Ferguson. Mother: Jean Doig. Informant: David Thomson - Son

466/00. 0020. Helen Ferguson. Died: 11 February 1875
Father: David Johnstone. Mother: Anna Watt. Informant: John Ferguson

374/00. 0031 Helen Ferguson. Died: 3 May 1876
Father: Peter Ferguson. Mother: Elizabeth Methven. Informant: Janet Robertson - Sister

644/11. 0025. Helen Ferguson. Died: 5 January 1877
Father: John McLean. Mother: Unity Loag. Informant: William Ferguson - Son

698/0B. 0027. Helen Ferguson. Died: 6 May 1878
Father: Alexander Ferguson. Mother: Margaret Reid. Informant: Robert Stoddart - inspector of Poor

404/00. 0064. Helen Ferguson. Died: 5 April 1878
Father: David Ferguson. Mother: Helen Scott. Informant: Hugh Winton - Son

652/02. 0041. Helen Ferguson. Died: 1 February 1880
Father: John Black. Mother: Margaret Smellie. Informant: William Ferguson - Son

644/14. 0275. Helen Ferguson
Father: Archibald Morrison. Mother: Elizabeth Fechnie. Informant: Janet Ferguson - Daughter

338/00. 0014. Helen Ferguson Died: 12 July 1882
Father: William Ferguson. Mother: Margaret Soutar. Informant: William Graham - Son

411/00. 0100. Helen Ferguson. Died: 13 October 1884
Father: John Ferguson. Mother: Helen Brown. Informant: David Webster - Nephew in Law

644/06. 0091. Helen Ann Ferguson. Died: 16 January 1877
Father: John Baird. Mother: Theresa Sinclair. Informant: Theresa Paterson - Niece

231/00. 0006. Helen Fergusson. Died: 2 June 1878
Father: Samuel Collie. Mother: Christian Mennie. Informant: James Ferguson - Son

495/00. 0020. Helen Ferguson. Died: 20 March 1870
Father: James Ferguson. Mother: Helen Jarvie. Informant: Thomas Murphy - Widower.

Hope something here breaks through the brick wall, Geoff
Best wishes, isk

[Geoff Rogers]

Hello isk

Many many thanks for the information, I can't see anything obvious yet but will work through all the names to see if I can find a link,

Once again, many thanks,

Regards
Geoff

[rossm]

Hi geoff,

I think I had a look at Helen Ferguson when you posted in the other thread. I think I figured out she was the mother-in-law of one of William's brothers. I can't find where I worked that out from at the moment though. Do you know who William's siblings were and who they were married to?

Cheers

Ross

[Geoff Rogers]

Hello Ross

William's siblings were John, James, Elspeth, Isabel and Janet - no marriages found yet.

Christean married James Panton and David married Elizabeth Robertson.

Thanks

Geoff

[rossm]

Hi Geoff,

Interesting coincidence, I think that James Panton could be my 4th Great Grand Uncle. Right name, right age, right parish. But that's beside the point...

There's a record for a John Sime marrying Catharine Ferguson in Inchture parish in 1840, and there's an 1815 christening for a Catharine Ferguson to David Ferguson and Helen White in Coupar Angus. This rather tenuously made me think Hellen Ferguson (White) might be John's mother-in-law, but it would make him 46 at his marriage, which is a little older than normal.

Looking again at the picture you posted of the two censuses, two things strike me:
1. Hellen Ferguson is definitely listed as mother-in-law.
2. Hellen Ferguson is also Unmarried (or are my eyes failing me?).

I know 'mother-in-law' can have a more general meaning than it would carry nowadays, hence my theory it could be William's sibling's mother-in-law rather than his wife's mother. The other possibility is that it's William's stepmother, but I see from the 1841 and 1851 census that William's mother outlived her husband, so that theory can be dismissed.

So perhaps the only remaining conclusion is simply that Hellen Ferguson is Ann McDougal's mother. This theory is strengthened by the evidence you've found for Hellen possibly living at Croftmartig in the 1851 census, close to where Ann was supposedly born. Given that Hellen is unmarried it would imply an illegitimate birth, and that Ann has taken the surname of her alleged father, which may explain why there's no christening record for her. I don't know if anyone else can lend any advice about the existance of Kirk session records for illegitimate births in Kenmore.

Going back to your death records, I think you can probably ignore the 1882 one for Cargill. I've found this Helen in the 1881 census, married to William Graham, and she's not born in Edinburgh.

Don't know if any of this helps, or tells you anything you didn't already know.

Ross