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Orlaith17
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
Location: Highlands

Familysearch.org

Post by Orlaith17 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:45 pm

Hoping someone can advise me. I have tried familysearch.org to look for Irish records which have so far evaded me. Delighted to find the search threw up a result. But I am not sure if this is based on factual records or based on info put in by another member which may be inaccurate? There is a reference number under each name (G9GZ- TZ8 is one). I have no idea if this relates only to their own records or may be useful trying to find actual paperwork to confirm details? Also have no idea of how to search further on these pieces of information to confirm their accuracy. Any advice would be gratefully received.

Elwyn 1
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland

Re: Familysearch.org

Post by Elwyn 1 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:17 pm

The reference number you have given doesn’t relate to any Irish records that I am familiar with and so suggests an LDS reference to me. If you give me details of what you have found, I may be able to direct you to any likely original source.

Bob C
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:06 am
Location: North Carolina USA

Re: Familysearch.org

Post by Bob C » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:23 pm

G9GZ- TZ8 is the unique identifier that Family Search has assigned that individual. Everyone in there database has a unique id and you can search on it.
Searching for Baillie in
Kettle, Collessie, Auchtermuchty and Markinch Fife
South Leith Midlothian
Larbert and Stirling

Orlaith17
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
Location: Highlands

Re: Familysearch.org

Post by Orlaith17 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:13 am

Thank you, Elwyn and Bob. Elwyn if you can give me any more clues, that would be great, thanks. The details are as follows. My great great grandad Hugh Hannan was married to a Jane McGee (or similar spelling). I got that detail from great grandad’s marriage certificate as he was born in Ireland but married in Scotland. I was searching for Hugh and Jane hoping to get a marriage for them and a birth for great grandad (Thonas Hannan). I got details in Family Search of a Hugh Hannan, born in Ireland 1825 and his spouse was named as Jane McGee. But no idea how to expand on that, like find out where they lived/married, birth of any children. I know when great grandad died his widow applied for parish help and I have her application stating he had been born in County Antrim but nothing to confirm that. If it helps, the identification number for Hugh is G9GZ- TZ8 and for Jane is G9GZ 5Y6. Thanks so much for trying to help.

Elwyn 1
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland

Re: Familysearch.org

Post by Elwyn 1 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:12 am

Orlaith,

Not every RC parish in Ireland has records for the period you are interested in (1820 – 1855).

I had a look on the Irish RC parish records which are on Ancestry, for Hugh & Jane’s marriage, plus the baptism of Thomas and any siblings, in Co Antrim in the 1840s and 1850s. I did not see any. Death registration started in 1864. I searched the death records 1864 to 1900 for likely deaths for Hugh & Jane and again did not find any in Co Antrim that could be them.

You say you have Thomas’s Scottish marriage certificate. If so, it should say whether his parents were alive or dead at that date. And what his father’s occupation was. Do you have that information?

I found the entries you refer to on LDS for Hugh & Jane. It’s not clear where the information comes from. It might just be a backwards assumption based on Thomas’s likely year of birth. The owner appears to have been active in 2019. I assume there’s a way of contacting her but I couldn’t see how you do it. I clicked on the various unique numbers but all it says is COPY ID. So none the wiser. Possibly BOB C can explain how you get in touch with the tree owner?


Elwyn

Bob C
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:06 am
Location: North Carolina USA

Re: Familysearch.org

Post by Bob C » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:12 am

Orlaith,

Go to Hugh on Family Search (Search>Family Tree>Find by ID>G9GZ-TZ8) and on the right hand side is an entry called Latest Changes.

Click on the submitter's name and select Send a Message.
Searching for Baillie in
Kettle, Collessie, Auchtermuchty and Markinch Fife
South Leith Midlothian
Larbert and Stirling

Orlaith17
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
Location: Highlands

Re: Familysearch.org

Post by Orlaith17 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:25 pm

Hi Elwyn. I have checked great grandad’s marriage certificate. He got married in September 1880. According to that, he was aged 30. I have his death certificate from Scottish records too, and have worked out either his age at marriage or at death is inaccurate by a couple of years. His father was a labourer and was deceased by his marriage in 1880. The surname has been spelled as Hanan rather than Hannan on the marriage certificate, though I doubt if that would make any difference in record searches. His wife’s maiden surname was written as McGee. She was still alive I assume as not recorded as deceased. Thanks.

Elwyn 1
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland

Re: Familysearch.org

Post by Elwyn 1 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:15 pm

Orlaith,

I searched again for Jane Hannan deaths in Co Antrim 1880 – 1920. There were just 8. 6 in Belfast and 2 registered in Antrim town. None of the Belfast ones was old enough to be Thomas’s mother. And the 2 in Antrim had their husbands’ named (Daniel & Patrick) so not married to Hugh. So I have drawn a blank there I am afraid.

I looked in Griffiths Valuation for 1862 and there was just 1 Hugh Hannan listed in Co. Antrim. He had a house, an outbuilding, yard and small garden in Feehogue which today is the Main Street in Randalstown. So that’s the sort of house a labourer might have. His name is deleted in 1865 which could be because he had moved or because he had died. I think he had probably died. The Griffiths clerks were often out by a year or two and I suspect he died before 1.1.1864 which is when statutory death registration started. So that could explain the lack of a death certificate.

I searched the records for Co Antrim for any Hannan marriage (1864 – 1894) where the father was Hugh. There was just one in 1888 and it was in Randalstown:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... 928358.pdf

Peter was born c 1832, according to the age on his marriage cert, and his father Hugh, a labourer, was dead. Here’s Peter in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... et/920076/

I have a copy of “Sweet Drummaul” (published in 1991 by Patrick O’Kane) which is a history of the RC parish of Drummaul which includes Randalstown and the surrounding area. In July 1848 there was a sort of census of the parish for the purpose of raising funds. That census lists Hugh Hannin as living in Randalstown then. Drummaul RC’s records start in 1825, so if that is where your Thomas was born he ought to appear in those records. He doesn’t, so I am not sure this is the right location.

I don’t know where Jane went, unless perhaps to live with a relative in GB or another part of Ireland. Irish research can be hard going as I expect you already know.


Elwyn

Orlaith17
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
Location: Highlands

Re: Familysearch.org

Post by Orlaith17 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:26 am

Thank you so much, Elwyn. Yes, I am well aware of how tricky Irish research can be. Oddly though, I have managed to get so much more from my grandmother’s (Scanlan) side from Sligo.But grandad’s (Hannan) side seems to be something of a closed book. Guess it all depends on how many records survived and indeed how much information is accurate. I only have great grandad’s word on his marriage certificate who his parents were. And his age on marriage and death certificates doesn’t tally, so who knows?

Elwyn 1
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland

Re: Familysearch.org

Post by Elwyn 1 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:01 am

Discrepancies over ages are pretty common. The information was only as accurate as the informant's knowledge and there was a lot of guesswork, especially on death certificates, where it obviously couldn't be first hand knowledge.

In general, people in Ireland in the 1800s didn’t celebrate birthdays, didn’t have birth certificates or passports (though they might sometimes have had a baptismal cert) and often had little accurate idea of their ages. Most ages on official documents were just a guess.

Alexander Irvine was born in 1863 in Antrim town and became a Minister living in the US. This extract from his book “The Chimney Corner revisited” perhaps explains why people often had to guess their ages:

“My mother kept a mental record of the twelve births. None of us ever knew, or cared to know, when we were born. When I heard of anybody in the more fortunate class celebrating a birthday I considered it a foolish imitation of the Queen’s birthday, which rankled in our little minds with 25th December or 12th July. In manhood there were times when I had to prove I was born somewhere, somewhen, and then it was that I discovered that I also had a birthday. The clerk of the parish informed me.”

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