Lorimer Conundrum

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Moray_Lass
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Lorimer Conundrum

Post by Moray_Lass » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:17 pm

I have an ancestor giving me a headache and the newly released Kirk Session Minutes have drawn a blank. I am going round in circles and need some fresh eyes on this problem. ](*,) Can anyone see something I am missing and do you think the Death Cert info can be trusted?

William Lorimer
born - c1814 (census/death cert) Fordyce
Married - Elspeth Black, 30 July 1836, Boyndie (she is also c1814, so put them both approx 22)
death - 25 Mar 1889, Boyndie
(Children's naming patterns seem to be all maternal side except a 'William' - no John or Isabel)

From death certifcate -
he's "Illegitimate"
"Reputed Father" is "John Lorimer (soldier)"
Mother is "----- Begg (later Ogilvie)" [first name blank]
both were deceased
informant was his Son

So... checked Fordyce KSM between 1813-1817 - nothing with a Beg/Begg.

Marriage Ogilvie/Beg, 12/12/1823 Fordyce (wrongly indexed as James - reported)
John Ogilvie and Isabel Beg

Children
John Ogilvie/Isabel Begg, Fordyce between 15 Feb 1824-1 Sep 1838 - That did make the Fordyce KSM, Antinuptual Fornication :-) I haven't checked the witnesses on the children to see if William Lorimer is one, at least on the later ones.

Isabella Begg/Oglivie death 14 April 1873, aged 72, Husband John - informant, parents William Begg and Jane Williamson, born 6 Jan 1800. No mention of any possible Lorimer marriage, just to rule that out.

So... she was 14 when she had William??? Nothing in the KSM, and at 14 I would have expected some mention, forget illegitimate. I'm starting to doubt the Death Cert info...

No William Begg births with mother Beg/Begg between 1800-1824 in Scotland

There is a -
William Lorimer birth 12/1/1819, Fordyce but he'd be 17 at 1836 marriage...
John Lorimer/Isabel Brodie m 1816 Fordyce
children between 1817-1825
He wouldn't be illegitimate, but Begg/Brodie? :roll:
And no marriage between Lorimer/Brodie and Oglivie later.

So can anyone see anything I have missed?
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

kitkat27
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:03 am

Re: Lorimer Conundrum

Post by kitkat27 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:20 pm

Hi Maggie

Just did a wee Search for you try here:

Ordiquhill kirk session, Minutes (1800-1842), CH2/291/3 and image number 00033.
Look in the bottom right hand page.
I think this might help you.

KT

Moray_Lass
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: Lorimer Conundrum

Post by Moray_Lass » Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:40 pm

Thanks KT - that does open things up a bit more =D> Still no baptisim record for William sadly so his BOD is still vague.

I wonder where the whole Begg/Oglivie marriage came from on the Death Cert, unless Isabel Begg is Ann's sister and William's son got confused. (no sign of her being a sister in the baptism records). William Lorimer (c1814) does have a daughter Ann (3rd daughter), and Isabel's parents were married in Craig though that could be another red herring. :-

Thanks for that leg up so I am off to see if I can identify Ann and John Lorimer - who is most likely not a Soldier, more likely a Farm Worker.
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

WilmaM
Posts: 1731
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Lorimer Conundrum

Post by WilmaM » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:21 pm

keep reading Maggie - I'm on page 35 .
being a soldier is mentioned, and it's to be continued in February.

Moray_Lass
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: Lorimer Conundrum

Post by Moray_Lass » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:26 pm

Thanks for the heads up Wilma, I should have kept going, I know better, having had one drag on for years :oops:

What a saga, but nothing in the Fordyce Presbytery minutes, sadly. First 1814 entry is April. But Ann Begg is a witness in Ann Smith case against William Smith in October in Ordiquhill. If only they had named her step mother to help tracking down her father...
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

WilmaM
Posts: 1731
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Lorimer Conundrum

Post by WilmaM » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:30 pm

nothing in the Fordyce Presbytery minutes, sadly. First 1814 entry is April.
A bit disappointing - I was looking for more in the tale.

And this is just the first week of the Kirk Records - what other 'goodies' are in store for us.

Moray_Lass
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: Lorimer Conundrum

Post by Moray_Lass » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:31 pm

Yeah - but it got me a bit further on the William Lorimer, with references and not guesswork. :lol: I now know that Soldier-John is local and not passing through, as she turned up at his father's house. Their relationship had been going on for 2 years, they claim he promised to marry her, though he claimed they only met twice. Her father was married twice. And she was still working for James Taylor after William's birth, as she was witness for Ann Smith. So I assume that her parents lived close to Uppermill and had William. I guess my next task is track down any records of solider-John, probably Banffshire Militia maybe get an age for him.

One thing I have noticed is the Minutes written with blue ink on blue paper (like certain Deskford, Banffshire ones) that took a long time to appear on the systen in Edinburgh, aren't up on the website yet. I found them easier to read on the screen than the printout I took home and might purchase them again if they ever appear online. So more could yet be uploaded.

You know when you start something and CAN NOT walk away? :lol: I have just found an Ann Begg on the 1841 Census who is Ann Oglivie on the 1851 census (2 of the same children). Bit flexible in where she was born - (freecen) 1851 Bellie, 1861 Boyndie :evil: But if I am right that explains the 'Later Oglivie' on William Lorimer's death certificate and it is turning out to be 100% reliable, which I was doubting. Just no Banns - he's from Edinburgh, and not found a death certificate for her either.
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

WilmaM
Posts: 1731
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Lorimer Conundrum

Post by WilmaM » Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:04 pm

Oh good, little snippets sometimes help.
Keep us posted, we are intrigued here, as that's 'our' neck of the woods [holidays, and GGGParents birthplaces].

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