An alternate source for genealogical info .....

[Dz]

Does anyone know if centrally-located Scottish or Irish registration books include the rarely-seen (smallpox) vaccination register?
(Perhaps they are stored only in the local registration offices?)

Such registers could be a good alternate source of genealogical information concerning persons who emmigrated from their home country during the period beyond about 1855-65 or so.

I have in my possession an extract of such a record, produced in 1926 as proof of immunization for entry into the United States. (Through about 1970, all persons entering the country from abroad had to show proof of a successful vaccination, including citizens returning to the US from a brief vacation in the "auld country". IIRC, Canadians had a similar law, and a certificate was not required for entry from Canada.)

The example certificate shows that a successful vaccination occurred in June 1903, when the youngster was 5 months old. It also cross-references the child's birth record entry, names the child's parent(s), and the tiny Irish townland/registration district in which they lived.

An example image is available within the "Help in Deciphering Images" gallery, since that is the only gallery appearing in the drop-down "upload" menu list...
(No info concerning its URL is currently available as this is written...)
The image is in the highly-compressed PNG format, which most browsers can display directly; no "viewer" required.

FYI - the PNG file is 19,769 bytes in size. Compare to:
- Grp 4 fax TIFF, 16,516 bytes.
- GIF format, 23,677 bytes.
- PCX format, 37,215 bytes.
- Uncompressed 2-color TIF, 110,864 bytes - more than eight times the size of the highly-compressed TIF, yet containing exactly the same image and information.

.

[AndrewP]

Your Gallery link is http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-72 - URL can be found in the info panel below the image.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[DavidWW]

Does anyone know if centrally-located Scottish or Irish registration books include the rarely-seen (smallpox) vaccination register?
(Perhaps they are stored only in the local registration offices?) ......much...... snipped

I asked the same question of General Register Office Scotland (GROS) about a couple of years. The birth registers do not contain the vaccination register, although there is very occasionally an annotation on the original birth register entry confirming smallpox vaccination, sometimes scored out; presumably when the superintending registrar saw this illegal, later addition and was not happy with such a breach of the rules !!

GROS do not hold the registers, are not aware of their being held by local registrars, and suspect that they may have been destroyed a long time ago.

Just recently some excellent regional health board archives have been set up, so that it could be worth asking them the question.

Davie

[Moonwatcher]

Hi,

The following link gives some interesting background into the smallpox vaccination programme and certification process in late 19th Century Scotland.

Bob.

http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/haynin/haynin0819.htm

[Andy]

In Scotland vaccination records were treated as medical and, as far as I know were never available (though I still have my wee Jags Book).

However, as I said on SP, Irish Smallpox vaccinations were used for statistical purposes (helped to show that more children died after being vaccinated) so the records were issued by the Registry Office who would also have kept a copy but I have still not been able to ascertain whether these are available AT ALL never mind at a central location.

It would be very useful if they were available because it would cut down the search time for Births considerably.

[Dz]

Your Gallery link is http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-72 - URL can be found in the info panel below the image.

Thanks, Andrew. Since I often end up posting in the middle of the European night, the submittal had to wait for approval before it would be added to the gallery.

David; Andy: Yes, I knew the subject had been introduced on another board - but I surmised that few had ever seen one of the documents, or the good info which that particular registry was likely to contain. (I also intended to post a huge uncompressed TIF for visual comparison to show that nothing is lost by using highly-compressed images - except for the "empty air" between bits of image information.)

Since these records were still extant in 1926 (and the vaccination occured decades after the 19th century dates listed on the top of document), I figured they might still exist. After all - the extract shown was made from registry books that survived a grassroots fight for freedom, a subsequent civil war, and the transition to the Irish Free State without harm...

(P.S. - If anyone cannot see that PNG file directly in their browser, I'd appreciate a mention of the browser version used, and if you are using Win XP. Either a private message, or right here in the thread is fine with me! Thanks! )

[Andy]

Like John I reckon these records could be really useful.

Since they survived the Four Corners fire and the pulping exercises I'd be willing to bet that at least some of these records are still available locally but it would depend on various "Spring Cleaning" and clearouts of "Obsolete" documents.

Google says that some of these type of records "Temporary Vaccination Registers" (not the same thing but contains the same info) are held in the Poor Law Union records (most records are covered under a Poor Law Union area but these vaccination records are specifically for inmates of the Poorhouse).

Here are most that have fair records:

Co. Antrim:
Antrim: Indoor workhouse registers - P
Ballycastle: Indoor workhouse registers - P
Ballymoney: Indoor workhouse registers - P
Larne: Indoor workhouse registers - P

Co. Armagh
Armagh: Outdoor workhouse books - P
Armagh: Indoor WOrkhouse registers - P
Lurgan: Indoor workhouse books - P
Newry: Outrelief lists for Ballymoyler

Co. Cork
Cork: Indoor workhouse register - Cork Archives Institute
Kinsale: Indoor workhouse register - CAI
Middleton- Indoor workhouse books - CAI

Co. Donegal
Glenties: Indoor workhouse register - Co. Library
Inishowen: Indoor workhouse register - Co. Library
Letterkenny: Outdoor register - Co. Library

Co. Dublin
Dublin North: Indoor workhouse registerts - NA
Dubin south: Indoor workhouse registers - NA
Rathdown: Indoor workhouse registers - NA

Co. Fermanagh
Enniskilen: Out relief registers - P
Enniskillen: Indoor workhouse registers - P
Lowtherstown (Irvinestown): Out relief register - P
Lowtherstown (Irvinestown) Indoor workhouse registers - P
(part of Lowtherstown is in Co's Tyrone and Donegal)

Co Derry (Londonderry)
Magherafelt: Indoor workhouse register - P

Co. Offaly (King's Co.)
Parsonstown (Birr) : Indoor workhouse register - Co. Library
(part of this covers part of co. Tipperary)

Co. Tipperary
Thurles: Indoor workhouse registers - Co. Library

Co. Wicklow:
Rathdrum: indoor workhouse registers - Courthouse, Wicklow

P = Proni, NA = National Archives others have named repositories

The proper records, if extant, must have been indexed in some way so that anyone moving overseas could get a copy but there may just have been local indexes (indices) so, like most other things in Ireland, an idea of location would be needed.

It's a start but I'll try to enlist the help of a couple of pals (again) to see if I can find out more.

[caraid]

Hi Folks
I'm new to this board and this post caught my eye as I've just gotten hold of a bith cert from SP from the Dist of Bannockburn for a Robert Wilson born 11 may 1876 and under his name it has "Vaccinated as per Certificate dated 11 august 1876, then the Registrars Initials. Would not have known what all this was about if it wasn't for the post.
Out of the many many ancestors I've found, this is the first one I've come accross who has been vaccinated.
Lost 2 child ancestors in Dalkeith in 1872 from Smallpox, one 2 and one 13, they died within 2 days of each other.
Thanks again for posting this info

Caraid

[DavidWW]

Your Gallery link is http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-72 - URL can be found in the info panel below the image.

....snipped.............

David; Andy: Yes, I knew the subject had been introduced on another board - but I surmised that few had ever seen one of the documents, or the good info which that particular registry was likely to contain. (I also intended to post a huge uncompressed TIF for visual comparison to show that nothing is lost by using highly-compressed images - except for the "empty air" between bits of image information.)

Since these records were still extant in 1926 (and the vaccination occured decades after the 19th century dates listed on the top of document), I figured they might still exist. After all - the extract shown was made from registry books that survived a grassroots fight for freedom, a subsequent civil war, and the transition to the Irish Free State without harm...
.....snipped ..............

Hi John

Many thanks for posting that image.

I recall seeing such an Irish Vaccination Register record some years ago, but didn't archive it !!

I am led to believe that similar registers existed in Scotland, but no-one seems to know if they are mouldering away in a basement somewhere, or whether they were pulped or incinerated some decades ago.

As Andy correctly states they were medical records but as very neatly illustrated by the image that you posted, it was the responsibility of the registrars of BMD records to maintain the vaccination registers.

Thinks I've got a couple of contacts in the regional health board archives to whom I'll pose the question of whether they have any idea on the location of the Scottish records.........

Davie

[DavidWW]

Hi Folks
I'm new to this board and this post caught my eye as I've just gotten hold of a bith cert from SP from the Dist of Bannockburn for a Robert Wilson born 11 may 1876 and under his name it has "Vaccinated as per Certificate dated 11 august 1876, then the Registrars Initials. Would not have known what all this was about if it wasn't for the post.
Out of the many many ancestors I've found, this is the first one I've come accross who has been vaccinated.
Lost 2 child ancestors in Dalkeith in 1872 from Smallpox, one 2 and one 13, they died within 2 days of each other.
Thanks again for posting this info

Caraid

Caraid

As far as I'm aware Scottish registrars (dweezild's example relates to Ireland - a separate jurisdiction) were also required to maintain such vaccination registers, but some registrars may have misunderstood the instruction and made an annotation on the entry in the birth register instead, - I have an example where this was done, and the Superintending Registrar, who inspected the register before it was sent to Edinburgh had obviously instructed that this annotation should be deleted.

You'll note that in the case of the birth of Robert WILSON, as well as another on the same page, that the reference to the vaccination has been struck through !!

Davie