Is this as frustrating as it gets?

Post by **AnneM** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:39 pm

Hi all

I was down in the South of England this week, one reason for the trip being to research my husband's ancestors in the Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre in Chippenham. It's a really smart new centre and the staff are incredibly helpful even with a daft Scotswoman with limited knowledge of local geography.

The glittering prize was to try to tie up a female ancestor who would then give me the link which I'm reasonably sure of back to the C15. (His ancestors were unnaturally literate and posh, unlike mine, and as a result left quite a paper trail.)

This ancestor was called Lucretia and she was married to a John Bourne or Boorn, an apothecary. From the gravestone of her son it seems that they were related to one Giles Sadler or Sadlier (spell it how you will) in Amesbury and the gravestone states that he was the son of Henry Sadlier of Everley or Everleigh in Wiltshire. Indeed, Giles's will leaves much of his estate to 'my niece Lucretia, the wife of John Bourne apothecary in Amesbury'. Even better I found a marriage licence for 1662 for Lucretia Sadler aged 30 and John Bourne.

This would then suggest that she was Lucretia Sadler or Sadlier born around 1632 possibly in Everley and the grand daughter of Henry Sadler of Everley. So far so good but who were her parents and can I find a birth to tie it in conclusively?? Nothing on the web.

So I dutifully arm myself with the fiches and transcriptions of the OPRs for Everley/Everleigh and to my great joy there is the baptism in 1632 of Lucretia Sadlier daughter of Mr George (who I know from another source is a son of the aforementioned Henry). You can just imagine how happy I was to find that.

However, I think I'd better just check the burials to see if there is any information on the family and to be thorough and guess what. There is an entry 3 days after the baptism of what I fondly believed to be my Lucretia giving the burial of Lucretia Sadliere daughter of Mr George; my wonderful find died at birth or shortly thereafter. How inconsiderate could she be.

My one consolation is that I found the burial in Salisbury Cathedral in 1641 aged 11 of an older sister Ursula along with a younger one Marie whose baptism is also nowhere in sight and I know that Ursula was the second one born in 2 years so I'm hoping that my Lucretia was the replacement for the one I found.

I felt that only my fellow genies could commiserate with me properly on this minor setback!

Anne

Post by **Jean Jeanie** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:05 pm

Hi Anne

Minor setback.....I think not

How lovely to find a paper trail and to be able to trace back so far

I always think it must be so difficult to trace things in England due to the lack of info on the certificates.

You also had a great excuse for a trip down south

Best wishes
Jean

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:20 pm

Hi Anne
Sounds like you had a great time - not so sure about poor old Lucretia though...

The glittering prize was to try to tie up a female ancestor who would then give me the link which I'm reasonably sure of back to the C15

I hope you made her a cup of tea after this ordeal!!

Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **AnneM** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:31 pm

Hi Lesley

I was ready to tie her up in earnest after the ordeal of thinking I'd found her and then discovering the one I'd found had died at birth!! Did they have tea in the 1630s??

Anne

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:41 pm

Hi Anne

Did they have tea in the 1630s??

Er...no, I don't think so!

Pour her a G&T instead...!

(yes, I know that wasn't an option in the 1630's either - such a deprived life!!)

Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **Anne H** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:29 pm

Hi Anne,

What fantastic finds!

Hopefully you'll find that next bit of proof to confirm that your Lucretia was a replacement for the first little one!

I can't imagine getting back as far as C15.

I'd be floating on a big fluffy cloud if I was able to get back that far...now, if I could just get some good confirmation on those early C18 families I have...that would make me very happy!

Regards,
Anne H

Post by **AnneM** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:55 pm

Hi Anne and all

Getting back this far on one of David's lines is just a fluke. It so happens that he has a reasonably famous ancestor if Lucretia is who I think she is and this has made to possible to get this far, as it is all well documented. Thet all have wills and stuff like that. Early C18 is about as good as it gets for mine if I'm lucky though I have got a couple of lines which I think are in the C17. Many of mine could not write, never mind have wills. I feel a bit reticent about mentioning it as I feel like one of these folk who wants to prove they're related to Rabbie Burns or Braveheart or whatever but I certainly was not looking for famous rellies and was very shocked when I came across this one for him.

As you can see I married above my station

. Actually I think he did better for himself!!

Anne

Post by **Anne H** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:46 pm

Anne M wrote:

I feel a bit reticent about mentioning it as I feel like one of these folk who wants to prove they're related to Rabbie Burns or Braveheart or whatever but I certainly was not looking for famous rellies and was very shocked when I came across this one for him.

I certainly wouldn't have been reserved about letting us know about your finds. I would have been thrilled too, Anne, and probably shouting my good news from the rooftops for everyone to hear!

As you can see I married above my station . Actually I think he did better for himself!!

David got the better deal!

Besides wonderful you, look at all those ancestors you're finding for him.

Enjoy your finds!

Regards,
Anne H

Post by **joette** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:59 pm

Aren't there records for Apothecaries?I'm sure I remember somebody in WDYTYA having an apothecary ancestor & there were quite extensive records for him??

The only famous Lucretia I can think of is off course Borgia but I am sure you are too nice to have married into such a nasty family!

Post by **AnneM** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:48 pm

Hi Joette

That's one avenue I've not yet explored but must. Lucretia herself was not famous but her great grandfather was most probably, verging on the almost certainly, Sir Ralph Sadler, Henry VIII's ambassador to Scotland, who was also a jailer for Mary Queen of Scots. Surprisingly he managed to survive not only the fall of his original patron, Thomas Cromwell, but also the reigns of 4 monarchs, to die in his bed aged 80 in 1587. As a protestant he had to keep his head down (quite literally) during the reign of Queen Mary but went on to serve Elizabeth in various capacities. He was, at his death, apparently the richest commoner in England. Sadly none of it seems to have trickled down this far. What I know mostly to his discredit is that he played a considerable role in the battle of Pinkie Cleugh when the English beat the Scots (boo, hiss).

Anne