Accuracy

Northern Ireland and Eire

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Orlaith17
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
Location: Highlands

Accuracy

Post by Orlaith17 » Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:44 pm

My great grandad was born in Ireland but married and died in Scotland. After he died, his widow applied for parish relief which I found on Scottish records, and she gave his place of birth as Antrim. I know his parents’ names from his Scottish marriage certificate. But despite years of searching, I can’t find a birth or baptism record for him or a marriage for his parents. As he married his wife, my great grandmother in a Catholic church, and raised my grandad and his siblings as Catholic, I assume they were a Catholic family. I know my great grandmother described herself as protestant on a record, I think after his death. Hence my believing his family may be in Catholic records. But despite trying various spellings and versions of names, no luck finding them. Can anyone give me any pointers or suggest something I may have missed please.

WilmaM
Posts: 1875
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Accuracy

Post by WilmaM » Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:13 am

Have you tried census records?
Both Scottish and Irish, you may pick him up with his parents even.

You don't mention the time period, but the Irish 1901 & 1911 are at http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
I've been using https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... search.jsp for tracing my Irish side - and been surprisingly successful !
Wilma

jgmills
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Dumfries and Galloway

Re: Accuracy

Post by jgmills » Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:23 pm

If they are Catholic, perhaps pre registration in Ireland then use this website

https://registers.nli.ie/

Elwyn 1
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland

Re: Accuracy

Post by Elwyn 1 » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:46 am

If you supply the names and rough dates, I’ll have a look for you.
Elwyn

Orlaith17
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
Location: Highlands

Re: Accuracy

Post by Orlaith17 » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:27 am

Thank you so much. My great grandfather’s name was Thomas Hannan. He married his wife Jessie Matthews in Cambusnethan in St Margaret’s Catholic Church, St Quivox, Cambusnethan in September 1880. His parents’ names were given as Hugh Hannan and Jane McGee. I have looked for alternative spellings of McGee too, eg Magee, McGhie. On the marriage certificate his surname was spelled as Hanan. He was born in Antrim, from information given by his widow when she applied for parish relief after his death. His age given on marriage and that given at death don’t match closely. I estimated he was born 1846 - 1849. Any links would be very much appreciated.

Elwyn 1
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland

Re: Accuracy

Post by Elwyn 1 » Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:48 am

I had a look in the RC parish records for a marriage for Hugh Hannan & Jane but without success. Likewise no sign of Thomas’s baptism nor that of any siblings. I see from the marriage certificate that Hugh was dead by 1880 but Jane still alive. Death registration started in 1864. I searched 1864 to 1880 for Hugh but did not find one in Antrim that might fit. I searched 1880 – 1921 for Jane’s death. There were 2 Janes of the right sort of age who lived in the area around Antrim town (parish of Drummaul) but both were married to other men, Daniel & Patrick. I also looked for a re-marriage for Jane but did not find one. (There are 2 Jane Hannan marriages in Belfast but both were spinsters).

There’s this lady in the 1901 census who was a widow:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... et/988093/

However her son’s marriage certificate tells me his father was another John, so not the right family. Otherwise I drew a blank.

Not every RC parish in Ireland has records for the 1840s. For example near Antrim town, Kirkinriola (Ballymena) only start in 1848 & Dunloy in 1860. So I would guess the Hannans come from a parish like that, and there are no records to search.

The only possible clue I found was from Griffiths Valuation.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith- ... /index.xml

I searched GV for Hugh Hannan anywhere in Co Antrim. There was only 1, and he was in the parish of Drummaul (Randalstown). The records for Drummaul were compiled in 1862 and Hugh is shown as renting a labourer’s cottage, with a yard and small garden, in Feehogue townland. Plot 20(i). The property was rented from the Shane’s Castle estate and is probably still there, on the modern Portglenone Rd in Randalstown. The initial Griffiths records are taken forward by the Valuation Revision Books, which are on the PRONI website. They show that Hugh was deleted in 1865 and replaced by a Thomas Rogers. Griffiths clerks dates were often out by a year or two. I suspect therefore that this Hugh may have died just before 1.1.1864 which is when death registration started. But on the other hand if it’s the right Hugh Hannan, Drummaul’s RC records start in 1825 and so you might expect to find his marriage and his childrens baptisms in them.

There’s a history of the RC parish of Drummaul, entitled “Sweet Drummaul” by Patrick O’Kane written in 1991. It mentions all the parishioners in 1848. There was a Hugh Hannin in Randalstown (that’s probably the one in Feehogue in Griffiths), and another in Lenagh or Drumkeeran (the 2 townlands were listed together so it’s not clear in which he actually lived).

You might want to go through the baptism and marriage records for Drummaul in the 1840s in case your family are there but were missed when the records were transcribed onto Ancestry. The records are available free on this link:

https://www.nli.ie/en/family-history-introduction.aspx
Elwyn

Orlaith17
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
Location: Highlands

Re: Accuracy

Post by Orlaith17 » Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:17 pm

Oh my goodness, that is a LOT of very useful hints and links. Thank you so much. In my own research, I did find Hugh Hannan and alternative surnames Hannin, Hanan/ Haneen. Indeed I found one of my grandad’s sisters birth registered in Scotland as Heenan. But non of the Hughs I found in Ireland could be matched to a marriage with a Jane McGhie/Magee. Or with a son Thomas. I did find a Hugh and Jane Hannan in Connecticut who had moved to USA from Ireland, but again, no record of her maiden name. Nor how likely it was that they might have moved and left their son behind.
Thank you so much for the effort you have put in to help me here. I will follow up on the links you sent and see what I can uncover and will certainly post here to let you know if I have any luck. I have been on this particular piece of my family tree for around 14 years or so. Fingers crossed I will get lucky eventually. Thanks again.

Orlaith17
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
Location: Highlands

Re: Accuracy

Post by Orlaith17 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:09 pm

Thank you very much for your help with my ancestors. Just a little update. I have spent much of today in Antrim parish records. I found a christening record, with parents named as Hugh Hannan and Jane Maggee. Not for Thomas, but for a baby named Hugh, I would think born before Thomas. Not found Thomas yet. Nor have I managed to find a marriage yet for Hugh and Jane. There was an odd word beside Jane’s name on the record, and her maiden name Maggee was written above. Hard to deciphee some of the writing but the “odd word” looks like Kolius ouer or Kohius ouer. Space in the word so unsure if it is meant to be one or two words. Have been looking up possible Latin terminology but no luck so far working it out. Still lots more records to look through as the dates I have been working on have been no more than estimates based on his stated age on marriage and death records here. This is the furthest I have managed to get with this family, so a huge thank you for your help.

Elwyn 1
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland

Re: Accuracy

Post by Elwyn 1 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:18 pm

Delighted to hear of your success. Sounds like it must be the right family. Those records are supposed to be on Ancestry but some of the transcriptions leave a bit to desired and so sometimes you don’t find records when you should. Nothing to beat going through the originals to double check.

If you give me the date of the Hugh baptism you found, I’ll have a look at it to see if I can tell you what the mystery word is.
Elwyn

Orlaith17
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
Location: Highlands

Re: Accuracy

Post by Orlaith17 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:11 pm

Thank you very much. It was the Antrim christening records for Drumaul, July 1844. The record is at the top right of page 18. I can see the baby Hugh’s name, followed by parent names. Jane’s maiden name spelled Maggee is written above her name. And then the odd looking word. One of the ‘g’ etters from Maggee kind of overlaps the first letter of the mystery word making it hard to be sure of the first letter. If relevant, I seem to remember coming across a record before, possibly for a christening for Thomas. It seemed to imply some issue anout christening as parents were not married. I cant remember where I found that and didnt note it down as was just guessing at implication, just my interpretation.

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