BROWN / ALEXANDER .....

[Rosey]

Hi all -

I only joined the forum today, but thought I would ask for any advice you might have concerning my Irish/Scots connection.

According to their marriage certificate obtained from SP, Hugh BROWN married Elizabeth ALEXANDER at Christ Church, Glasgow on 31 December 1874.

Hugh's parents were shown as John BROWN and Jane McCOMB. According to the entry Jane was deceased at the time of the marriage.

Elizabeth's parents were shown as John ALEXANDER and Sarah HOWIE.

At the time of the 1881 census, Hugh and Elizabeth were living with their children - John BROWN (c 1877) and Samuel Alexander BROWN (b 8 May 1878) at 6 Malvern Place, Glasgow.

Both the children were born in Glasgow, but the birthplace of Hugh and Elezabeth is shown as 'Ireland'.

By 1891 the family was living in Henrietta Street, Glasgow and there was a third child, Jane (c1882) but John was no longer listed at home.

Again, the birthplace for Hugh and Elizabeth is shown as 'Ireland'.

When Samuel Alexander BROWN married Elsie Blair MEEK at Albert Hall, Bridgeton, Glasgow on 14 April 1911 both Hugh and Elizabeth were shown as deceased.

I have no concrete proof as to where in Ireland Hugh BROWN and Elizabeth ALEXANDER came from, but family stories suggest that Co Tyrone comes into the equation somewhere, and an uncle (now deceased) remembered his father (Samuel Alexander Brown) taking him to Belfast to visit relatives as a young child.

It appears to me that I am looking for a 'needle in a hay stack' as Hugh BROWN and Elizabeth ALEXANDER would have been born before general registration began in Ireland, and I have no idea of the area to start looking at church registers.

Any ideas on how I can progress further?

Rosey

[Andy]

It's always wothwhile checking the IGI for children born to a particular couple. Although Hugh Brown would have been born pre-1864 statutory births in Ireland (from the census 1854-ish) the parents could have had many more children up to 1864 here is a possible:

JAMES BROWN
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 25 JUL 1864 0820, Feeny, Londonderry, Ireland

Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JOHN BROWN
Mother: JANE MCCOMB

If this is the correct couple you've narrowed down Jane's death to between 1864 - 1874 ... that's a start.

I then carried out a wee search all Brown's in Govan who were born in Ireland five year's either side of Hugh's 1854 birth year. One boarder in a Brown household catches the eye:

Dwelling: 18 Marlow St
Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203682 GRO Ref Volume 644-14 EnumDist 45 Page 4
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William BROWN M 31 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Carter
Jane BROWN M 33 F Ireland
Rel: Wife
Thomas BROWN 15 M Ireland
Rel: Son
Occ: Labourer
Sarah BROWN 9 F Ireland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Mary Jane BROWN 6 F Kini Park, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
William BROWN 2 m M Kini Park, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Son
Alexr. MILLER U 29 M Ireland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Labourer
Andrew ALEXANDER U 22 M Ireland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Iron Moulder

Then did a search for Irish born Alexanders (particularly Joseph who was a witness to the marriage). There are only three real hopefuls:

Dwelling: 6 Hill St
Census Place: Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203638 GRO Ref Volume 644-3 EnumDist 9 Page 20
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Joseph ALEXANDER M 66 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Shoemaker Finisher
Mary ALEXANDER M 58 F Ireland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Laundress
Mary A. ALEXANDER 1 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Agnes ADAMS W 60 F Ireland
Rel: Mother In Law
Occ: Formly Shirt Maker
Agnes ADAMS U 17 F Pollockshaws, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Step Daughter
Occ: Laundress Washer
John ADAMS U 12 M Pollockshaws, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Step Son
Occ: Message Boy

This Joseph is a Shoemaker as was Elizabeth's father.

And

Dwelling: 29 Craigiehall St
Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203684 GRO Ref Volume 646-1 EnumDist 3 Page 33
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Joseph ALEXANDER M 38 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Grain Store Labourer
Margt. ALEXANDER M 31 F Galloway
Rel: Wife
James ALEXANDER 2 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Susan ALEXANDER 6 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Christopher ORR U 19 M Ireland
Rel: Cousin
Occ: App Riveter
John CORBETT M 23 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Pattern Maker
Mary CORBETT M 23 F Ireland
Rel: Boarder
Jane CORBETT 3 F Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Annie CORBETT 4 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Boarder

AND

Dwelling: 594 Gallowgate St
Census Place: Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203633 GRO Ref Volume 644-2 EnumDist 1 Page 3
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Joseph ALEXANDER M 26 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Joiner
Catherine ALEXANDER M 28 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Lettie ALEXANDER 2 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
John ALEXANDER 5 m M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son


I'd personally look into the first and third Joseph's to start with.

[Rosey]

Hi Andy

Wow - what a lot of information in such a short time !! It certainly proves that a fresh set of eyes on the subject makes all the difference.

I have been looking for Hugh BROWN and his parents John BROWN and Mary McCOMB for a while. I suppose I had tunnel vision as far as Hugh was concerned and didn't think to search for siblings.

I had a look at the IGI entry for James BROWN and see that it is in batch number 701232 which, according to Hugh Wallis's site, contains Irish Civil Records. As James was born in 1864, this must have been one of the first birth registrations in Ireland.

As I now live in Northern Ireland, I think my next step to find John BROWN and Jane McCOMB must be a visit to the Public Record Office Northern Ireland (PRONI). I will be out of the province for a long spell during April but will make a visit as soon as possible after that.

According to IreAtlas, Feeny is in the parish of Banagher. I see from the PRONI website that they have microfilm records for the Presbyterian Church in Banagher. I am pretty sure the family was Protestant, but here's hoping they were Presbyterian as I cannot see details of microfilm records for the Church of Ireland in Banagher. Hopefully, I will be able to prove that John BROWN and Jane McCOMB had a son Hugh as well as a son James - although gut reaction tells me that this is probably the right family.

It was interesting to see that an Andrew ALEXANDER was living as a boarder with a family of BROWNs in Glasgow in 1881. Seems too much of a coincidence not to be a connection there. Perhaps my research at PRONI will come up with an answer.

As far as the 1881 ALEXANDER households were concerned, you suggested that I concentrate on the first and third Joseph ALEXANDER to start with. In fact the third Joseph came out and hit me immediately.

I see that this family was living at 594 Gallowgate Street. When Samuel Alexander BROWN (Hugh BROWN and Elizabeth ALEXANDER's son) was born in 1878, his place of birth was shown as Malvern Place, Off Gallowgate and when Samuel got married his address was shown as shown as 637 Gallowgate. Although, as you say, the first Joseph ALEXANDER was a shoemaker - like John ALEXANDER.

Finally I must apologise to you - it is apparent from the answer that you looked at the marriage record of Hugh BROWN and Elizabeth ALEXANDER in (presumable) SP. Sorry I did not the give full details from the certificate. It would have saved you a trip to the site and, no doubt, some credits.

Thanks again for all that you have done - You have certainly given me a lot to work on. I will let you know in due course what I find at PRONI.

Regards
Rosey

[Rosey]

Hi

Thought I would update you.

I have found out that John BROWN and Jane McCOMB were married on 2 June 1853 at Cumber Upper Presbyterian Church.

Cumber Upper is the next parish to Banagher where Feeny is situated and where there was a sighting of a James BROWN (son of John & Jane). I also have his birth details.

It is now a case of searching the church records (which fortunately are on film at PRONI) for the son Hugh BROWN and any other children.

Thanks Andy for your earlier interest - it has got me back another generation!!

I am still on the lookout for the marriage of John ALEXANDER and Sarah HOWIE in Ireland.

I cannot find them post 1845, so they were either married before that date, or were not protestant. Non protestant marriages were not registered till 1864.

Thanks again Andy

Rosey

[DavidWW]

Rosey

Always good to hear the follow-up, sucessful in this case.

Elizabeth BROWN MS ALEXANDER's death record is now easy to find, given the added facility a couple of months ago of being able to search on the basis of both surnames for a married female death. Hugh's is a different matter!

If you use the same technique for Elizabeth's mother, - Sarah ALEXANDER MS HOWIE you will quickly find her death record, this of course shows the names of her parents.

Young Samuel is easy to locate by his age in the 1901 census, and tracking the family to which his relationship is shown a nephew may help you in NI (I don't believe the maiden name shown for the mother in the one birth register entry I looked at !!)

Davie