Old ParochialBoundaries.....

James Dargie · Post by **James Dargie** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:50 am

Five questions:

I make an assumption that the Old Parochial Boundaries [on which the Old parochial Registers are presumably based] are the same as the Ecclesiastical Boundaries of the Established Church of Scotland. Is this the case?

Were these boundaries dynamic, i.e. did they change over time?

Where are the boundaries of these geographic units described?

Do maps of these boundaries exist?

Did the boundaries of other christian denomination parishes, e.g. Roman Catholic parishes coincide with those of the Established Church?

Many thanks to anyone who can provide enlightenment.

James

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:47 am

Hi James,

The OPRs were the property of the Established Church (of Scotland) and therefore the pre-1855 parish boundaries served the parish church and its OPRs. In many parishes there were more Established Church of Scotlands, but they answered to the Parish Church and should be included in the Parish Church's OPRs. Post-1855, the boundaries on maps tend to be the Civil Parish boundaries. These started off based on the Ecclesiastical boundaries, but changed a lot over the years. See the web pages at http://www.talkingscot.com/rds/rds-intro.htm for more information about the Civil Parishes / Registration Districts.

The parish boundaries changed over the years. Some the parishes would change shape as the major landowners bought and sold land. The landowner seemed to have the power to have his lands brought within the parish. This gave rise to some detached pieces of land belonging to one parish, although totally detached from the main body of the parish and entirely surrounded by another parish.

The boundaries are described in the Statistical Accounts of Scotland. These can be found at http://stat-acc-scot.edina.ac.uk/stat-a ... c-scot.asp

There are maps online on the National Lbrariy of Scotland's map section of their Digital Library website at http://www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/map/index.html

I have never seen any maps shwing parish boundaries for any other denomination. They may exist within the archives of the denomination concerned.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

m

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:10 pm

The best published source is The Phillimore Atlas & Index of Parish Registers, the 3rd edition of which includes all of Scotland. But it's pricey at £50+.

It is good, howver, in terms of showing the detached parts of parishes. Originally, many parishes weren't contiguous, being based on the land ownership of the pre-reformation church

Michael Gandy's "Catholic Parishes in England, Wales And Scotland", published by the author, has maps of dioceses introduced in 1878 together with the parsih system introduced at the end of WWI.

For most of the secession churches the parish structure matched that of the Established Church of Scotland.

For non-conformists other that Catholics, e.g. Baptists, you will need to research their archives.

Davie

nancy · Post by **nancy** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:10 am

Hi AndrewP,just viewed the digitised map website and it's great.I clicked on Ordnance survey for Paisley and there was Paisley Poorhouse.As far as i know no rellies died there,but i have a few applying for poor relief.Is this where they would apply for temporary help when someone was sick or died,and wasn't much money coming in.My gran was refused help,as they said money young son was earning was enough to manage on.Thanks Nancy

Post by **AndrewP** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:19 am

Hi Nancy,

nancy wrote:... and there was Paisley Poorhouse.As far as i know no rellies died there,but i have a few applying for poor relief.Is this where they would apply for temporary help when someone was sick or died,and wasn't much money coming in ...

As far as I understand, until the Poor Laws Amendment (Scotland) Act 1845, payments to the poor were administered by the Church. After the 1845 Act, parochial boards were set up in each parish.

See http://www.dundee.ac.uk/education/bed/h ... r/spl.html
and http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Scotland.shtml

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

m

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:23 pm

The majority of poor relief in Scotland was "out relief", i.e. asistance in either financial terms, or in kind. Only a minority of applicants were admitted to the poorhouses, - "in relief", - of which there were only around 70 in the whole of Scotland.

Most parishes combined to build a poor house, - hence the term, for example, Cunningham Combination Poorhouse.

The site mentioned by Andrew at http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Scotland.shtml has a list of all the Scottish poorhouses.

Davie

Post by **Anne H** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:19 pm

If someone died in a Poorhouse/Combination Poorhouse but had a "usual residence" elsewhere, would there have been a Poor Relief Applicaton on file or were they also used as hospitals for the general public?

Regards,
AnneH

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:43 pm

Anne H wrote:If someone died in a Poorhouse/Combination Poorhouse but had a "usual residence" elsewhere, would there have been a Poor Relief Applicaton on file or were they also used as hospitals for the general public?

Regards,
AnneH

Hi AnneH

I think that I know what you mean, ..... i.e. someone receiving out-relief.

Whether or not the person was receiving out-relief or in-relief, there would have been a visit by the Inspector and a report submitted.

The BIG question is whether these reports have survived to the present day .........

Davie

nancy · Post by **nancy** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:45 pm

Hi Andrew,David and Anne.Thanks to all on this site who helped me in finding DC for hubbies gt/gramps Archibald Seaton on SP.It states he died of renal failure age53 on Aug 5th 1891at Barnhill Poorhouse.Dennistoun.Usual res 16 Savoy St.The other 2 deaths on cert were also in poorhouse. Sad when you read them all. Cheers Nancy.

Post by **Anne H** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:57 am

Hi Davie,

Thanks and yes, receiving out-relief is what I meant. It would be great if these records were still in existence. I had a couple of different people in that situation in Coatbridge and also Airdrie... would I enquire at the Mitchell Library or NRH or in the town libraries themselves to see if the records do exist?

Regards,
AnneH