Hi
Can anyone help me find my Great gran and her brothers orphan records.I have my Ggran Jane Moncur on the 1841 cencus but think her mother Janet Morrison and father Thomas Moncur must have died as i cant find them on the 1951 cencus.Annette kindly found poor records for my ggran when she was married and it states that she had been an orphan.She had a brother John Moncur born 1840 and Thomas Morrison Moncur born 1843 glasgow .My grran Jane Moncur was born 1838 Sugar House Lane Greenock.The 1841 cencus has them in Barony .Marguerite
Help in finding orphan records.
Moderator: Global Moderators
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m morgan
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:05 pm
- Location: denny stirlingshire
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Jack
- Posts: 1808
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
- Location: Paisley
Re: Help in finding orphan records.
Hi Marguerite,
Sorry can't help on orphan records; not sure that there will be any for around that time.
But hopefully someone will know the answer.
There is this 1851 census; perhaps you already have it?
Could this be your G-gran Jane?
Do you know if John (b.1840) & Thomas M. (b.1843) did reach adulthood?
--
1851 census 622 (595) Ed 24 p 8 (Barony - Calton)
49 Struthers St.
James MORRISON, head, 59, manager of a brewery, b Kilpatrick, Dumbarton
Marrion MORRISON, daur, 21, housekeeper, b Glasgow, Lanark
Jane MONCUR, niece, 11, --------------------b Lanark (shire?)
James MONCUR, nephew, 8, --------------b Lanark (shire?)
--
I'm not too sure that niece & nephew are the true relationships though.
(i.e. if it is your Jane)
Do you know who Janet MORRISON's parents were?
--
Jack
====
ps later; from the High Church Burials records.
This is a possible (no proof) for your Thomas.
Though Milton St (where he was in 1841) runs off Cowcaddens.
Age is near enough, and his occupation then as a Joiner tallies with Wright.
But no suitable burial record found for Janet MORRISON.
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Thomas MONCURR, formerly residing in Cowcaddens.
Buried 4 FEB 1843, Age 30, Wright.
Cause - Fever.
====
Sorry can't help on orphan records; not sure that there will be any for around that time.
But hopefully someone will know the answer.
There is this 1851 census; perhaps you already have it?
Could this be your G-gran Jane?
Do you know if John (b.1840) & Thomas M. (b.1843) did reach adulthood?
--
1851 census 622 (595) Ed 24 p 8 (Barony - Calton)
49 Struthers St.
James MORRISON, head, 59, manager of a brewery, b Kilpatrick, Dumbarton
Marrion MORRISON, daur, 21, housekeeper, b Glasgow, Lanark
Jane MONCUR, niece, 11, --------------------b Lanark (shire?)
James MONCUR, nephew, 8, --------------b Lanark (shire?)
--
I'm not too sure that niece & nephew are the true relationships though.
(i.e. if it is your Jane)
Do you know who Janet MORRISON's parents were?
--
Jack
====
ps later; from the High Church Burials records.
This is a possible (no proof) for your Thomas.
Though Milton St (where he was in 1841) runs off Cowcaddens.
Age is near enough, and his occupation then as a Joiner tallies with Wright.
But no suitable burial record found for Janet MORRISON.
--
Thomas MONCURR, formerly residing in Cowcaddens.
Buried 4 FEB 1843, Age 30, Wright.
Cause - Fever.
====
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StewL
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:59 am
- Location: Perth Western Australia
Hi Marguerite
As Jack said, you will probably not find any information on the adoption around this time. I have a relative who adopted a lad sometime after he married in 1873. Around this time I believe adoptions were usually informal and within families. I cant recall exactly when formal adoptions were introduced, but I believe it is in the early 20th century.
As Jack said, you will probably not find any information on the adoption around this time. I have a relative who adopted a lad sometime after he married in 1873. Around this time I believe adoptions were usually informal and within families. I cant recall exactly when formal adoptions were introduced, but I believe it is in the early 20th century.
Stewie
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Searching for: Anderson, Balks, Barton, Courtney, Davidson, Downie, Dunlop, Edward, Flucker, Galloway, Graham, Guthrie, Higgins, Laurie, Mathieson, McLean, McLuckie, Miln, Nielson, Payne, Phillips, Porterfield, Stewart, Watson
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LesleyB
- Posts: 8184
- Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
- Location: Scotland
Hi all
For information about adoption in Scotland see:
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10327
Best wishes
Lesley
For information about adoption in Scotland see:
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10327
Best wishes
Lesley
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m morgan
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:05 pm
- Location: denny stirlingshire
Hi Jack
I dont know anything about Janet Morrisons parents or Thomas Moncurs though on the 1841 cencus looks like he was Irish it has an I next to Joiner and N as not beeing from Scotland. I think this is my Ggran Jane Moncur.Do you think that James could be Thomas.Or maybe Janet Morrison had another child since the last cencus. I know that on some records Jhames sometimes looks like Thomas.It happened on Jane Moncurs marriage certificate.I thougth it was James but was actually Thomas.I dont know if John and Thomas reached adulthood.I have tried looking for info for this family but keep hiting a brick wall.
Thanks Marguerite.
I dont know anything about Janet Morrisons parents or Thomas Moncurs though on the 1841 cencus looks like he was Irish it has an I next to Joiner and N as not beeing from Scotland. I think this is my Ggran Jane Moncur.Do you think that James could be Thomas.Or maybe Janet Morrison had another child since the last cencus. I know that on some records Jhames sometimes looks like Thomas.It happened on Jane Moncurs marriage certificate.I thougth it was James but was actually Thomas.I dont know if John and Thomas reached adulthood.I have tried looking for info for this family but keep hiting a brick wall.
Thanks Marguerite.
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nelmit
- Posts: 4002
- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
- Location: Scotland
Thomas was born in Scotland according to FREECEN-
Piece: SCT1841/622 Place: Barony -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 8
Civil Parish: Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Milton
Folio: 222 Page: 14
Address: Milton Street
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MONCUR Thomas M 30 Joiner Journeyman Outside Census County (1841)
MONCUR Janet F 25 Lanarkshire
MONCUR Jane F 2 Lanarkshire
MONCUR John M 1 Lanarkshire
Marguerite, to me the N just means he wasn't born in Lanarkshire where he was living in 1841. Are you sure about the I as usually they don't have both.
I also think I made a mistake in transcribing the PH application re Jane's birth.
viewtopic.php?t=10312&highlight=hay+moncur
Regards,
Annette M
Piece: SCT1841/622 Place: Barony -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 8
Civil Parish: Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Milton
Folio: 222 Page: 14
Address: Milton Street
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MONCUR Thomas M 30 Joiner Journeyman Outside Census County (1841)
MONCUR Janet F 25 Lanarkshire
MONCUR Jane F 2 Lanarkshire
MONCUR John M 1 Lanarkshire
Marguerite, to me the N just means he wasn't born in Lanarkshire where he was living in 1841. Are you sure about the I as usually they don't have both.
I also think I made a mistake in transcribing the PH application re Jane's birth.
viewtopic.php?t=10312&highlight=hay+moncur
Regards,
Annette M
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Jack
- Posts: 1808
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
- Location: Paisley
Re: Help in finding orphan records.
Hi Marguerite,
As to James in 1851 being Thomas i couldn't say - is possible though.
Or that there actually was a James too.
Getting proof might be difficult if James and? Thomas died pre 1855.
--
I'll go along with Annette on the "N".
Although it should've been as "No", this was often abbreviated to just "N".
I've not seen the original 1841 census page,
but i'd make a guess that the "I" is actually a "J" and the line is as,
Thomas Moncur, 30, Joiner J, N.
Meaning,
Thomas was a 30yr old Joiner Journeyman born somewhere in Scotland, but not Lanarkshire.
--
But see the very useful TS Census link at the top of this page.
http://www.talkingscot.com/censuses/census-intro.htm
Click on 1841 - the enumerators' instructions, and much more, are shown.
--
Jack
As to James in 1851 being Thomas i couldn't say - is possible though.
Or that there actually was a James too.
Getting proof might be difficult if James and? Thomas died pre 1855.
--
I'll go along with Annette on the "N".
Although it should've been as "No", this was often abbreviated to just "N".
I've not seen the original 1841 census page,
but i'd make a guess that the "I" is actually a "J" and the line is as,
Thomas Moncur, 30, Joiner J, N.
Meaning,
Thomas was a 30yr old Joiner Journeyman born somewhere in Scotland, but not Lanarkshire.
--
But see the very useful TS Census link at the top of this page.
http://www.talkingscot.com/censuses/census-intro.htm
Click on 1841 - the enumerators' instructions, and much more, are shown.
--
Jack