Mitchell Library Lookup Please

Genetrix · Post by **Genetrix** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:33 pm

If anyone is visiting the Mitchell Library would you be kind enough to look up Elizabeth McIntyre for me. I have her death certificate and was stunned to see she died at Barnhill Poor House on October 10, 1915. Usual residence is shown as 36 West Bothwell Street, Glasgow. Her husband John McIntyre shown as informant on DC but his address is 3 Cadzow Street, Glasgow, so looks like they'd split up. Would like to know how long she was there. Can't believe she'd die in the poorhouse when she had four grown children. Thanks for any help.

Tricia

Post by **emanday** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:45 pm

Genetrix wrote:Can't believe she'd die in the poorhouse when she had four grown children.

Times were pretty hard for a lot of folk back then and many people simply didn't have the financial ability to support frail or ill relatives, even their own parents.

If the offspring were known about the Poor Relief inspector would try and get (i.e. force!) them to contribute, though.

Post by **joette** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:51 pm

Tricia I know this can be a shock.I was incensed at what I believed was the indifference/cruelty of my ancestors allowing their family member to be in the Poorhouse much less die there.
However after understanding the historical context surrounding Poorhouses & their functions my mind was put to rest.
This was before any NHS most people were nursed at home or recieved hospital care in Charity Hospitals-sometimes funded from their own work based Insurance or some kind of a Policy.Oft times the Parish provided their living especially those chronically ill,aged etc.
However sometimes the only recourse was the Poorhouse which would have had an Infirmary attached in most cases.This was especially used for the care of the eldery,the "feeble-minded" & ofttimes childbirth.
Most ordinary people only had the resources to provide for their day to day living & many did not have the time,money or space to provide care for an aged or ill family member.This was not indifference this was stark reality & oftimes the heart was willing but circumstances not.

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:56 pm

Genetrix wrote:If anyone is visiting the Mitchell Library would you be kind enough to look up Elizabeth McIntyre for me. I have her death certificate and was stunned to see she died at Barnhill Poor House on October 10, 1915. Usual residence is shown as 36 West Bothwell Street, Glasgow. Her husband John McIntyre shown as informant on DC but his address is 3 Cadzow Street, Glasgow, so looks like they'd split up. Would like to know how long she was there. Can't believe she'd die in the poorhouse when she had four grown children. Thanks for any help.

Tricia

Don't know when I'll get there Tricia but I need her maiden name, age and place of birth to search.

Regards,
Annette

Genetrix · Post by **Genetrix** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:13 pm

Thanks for your comments Emanday and Joette. How sad that people lived in such poverty.

Nelmit thanks so much for your offer to look up the Mitchell records for me. The lady I'm looking for was Elizabeth McIntyre (maiden name LITTLE). She was born in 1853 in Glasgow although I don't have her actual birth certificate. Marriage certificate shows parents as Helen Fleming and William Little. However, death certificate shows Helen Flynn and James Little. Husband was John McIntyre. They were together in the 1901 census along with children James, Alice, Helen and John at 36 West Bothwell Street, Glasgow.

Thanks again,
Tricia

Genetrix · Post by **Genetrix** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:16 pm

Nelmit, forgot to mention she was 62 when she died on October 10, 1915. Save you working it out!

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:42 pm

Here is the Little/Flynn family in 1861 living at Centre Street, Govan-

James Little 39
Ellen Little 36
Margt Little 16
Elizabeth Little 10
Ellen Little 5
Willm Little 3
Charles Little under 1 mo

This Elizabeth was born 1850-

Results for: Father: James Little, Mother: Helen Flynn

1. CHARLES JAMES LITTLE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 31 MAR 1861 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
2. ELIZABETH LITTLE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 15 DEC 1850 Gorbals, Lanark, Scotland
3. JEMIMA LITTLE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 23 JUN 1865 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
4. HELEN LITTLE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 21 JUN 1855 Tradeston, Lanark, Scotland
5. ALICE MARY LITTLE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 19 APR 1863 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
6. WILLIAM LITTLE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 30 JAN 1858 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
7. MARGARET LITTLE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 31 OCT 1867 Hutchesontown, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Going by the sister being Alice I would think she's definitely the right one.

Hopefully the application (if there is one) will give her children's names to prove it's definitely your Elizabeth.

Regards,
Annette

Genetrix · Post by **Genetrix** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:38 pm

Hi Annette: You clever old thing! Certainly looks like the right Elizabeth. I've confirmed (through SP) that her daughter was Alice Mary. Same as her sister. Then there's Helen and James (after the parents) and young John after the husband. Don't think that's just a coincidence.

I hadn't taken too much notice of Elizabeth's family since she was the second wife of my great grandfather (John McIntyre) and I'm descended from his first wife. I was actually trying to locate his death certificate and when I couldn't find it I thought I'd try Elizabeth's to see if she was a widow or a wife. John was still alive but when I saw the bit about the poor house, I thought she deserved a bit more attention. She did, after all bring my grandfather up as he was only two years old when his mother died and his father re-married a year later.

Can't understand though why she called her father William and her mother Helen Fleming on the marriage certificate. It says her father was a Private in the Army with the 64th Foot. No wonder I couldn't find her birth certificate. Its not the first time I've come across these name changes from Marriage to Death certificates and I usually go with the Marriage one since the person is alive at that time and you'd think they'd know the names of their own parents.

Tricia

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:08 pm

hi Tricia

I can see how Flynn and Fleming could be muddled - maybe she said Flynn and the registrar thought he heard Fleming, so that is what was written down....

Best wishes
Lesley

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:41 pm

Hello again Tricia,

Sorry there was no application for Elizabeth in the poorhouse index.

In case you want to try and follow it up there may be a chance Strathclyde University Archives will have a record since The Mitchell doesn't. http://www.archives.gla.ac.uk/gghb/collects/hb29.html

As you will see Barnhill also had a geriatric unit at that time and if she was admitted there it would explain why there was no poorhouse application.

Since you won't be following her family I just thought you'd like to know her mother was born at Newfoundland.

Regards,
Annette

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