According to the 1891 Census, my grandfather, Peter Necy (born Burntisland in 1877) was a 'reformatory boy in detention' at the Parkhead Reformatory for Catholic Boys. Does anyone know:
1) why a 14 year old boy would be sent there. Would he had to have committed a crime or was there any other reason he could have been there?
2) what would conditions would have been like?
3) are any records available for this institution?
Parkhead Reformatory West Thorn
Moderator: Global Moderators
-
Currie
- Posts: 3924
- Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Parkhead Reformatory West Thorn
Hello, PeterS, and Welcome to TalkingScot.
When I searched for “Parkhead Reformatory” in the 19th Century British Library newspapers, (Glasgow Herald, Aberdeen Journal and Dundee Courier), there were quite a lot of reports of Catholic boys being sent there from Dundee for various offences. Boys sent to Parkhead were first sent to prison followed by a number of years in the reformatory. Parkhead appears to have been specified if it was learned they were Catholic, perhaps there was nothing suitable closer. Possibly the Fife papers, if we were lucky enough to have any online, would have similar reports.
In about ten newspaper reports between 1885 and 1891 the crimes were almost all theft, the ages, where mentioned, were between 11 and 14, the sentence was consistently 10 days in prison, followed by from three to five years in Parkhead. All recipients were named.
1892 [C.6733] Thirty-fifth report, for the year 1891, of the inspector appointed, under the provisions of the act 5 & 6 Will. IV. c. 38., to visit the certified reformatory and industrial schools of Great Britain.
Parkhead Reformatory for Roman Catholic Boys, Westhorn Mills, Parkhead, near Glasgow.
Inspected June 6, 1891.
Number of inmates on day of inspection, boys, 173 under detention, and 38 on license.
State of premises.—Including the garden and fields there are about 12 acres of land. The premises were in good order; they are improved every year. The new buildings mentioned in last year's report have added much to the comfort and efficiency of the school. There is a large play-shed with good dormitory over it; the old dormitories are low, but not uncomfortable, and are well ventilated. There is a very good schoolroom and class-room, a large chapel, a good swimming bath, which can be heated, and a comfortable sick-room.
Health and general condition.—There had been one death from peritonitis. No boy had been discharged in consequence of ill-health. There had been two cases of pneumonia, one of meningitis, one of jaundice, and several cases of sore eyes. One boy had hurt his hand in the mangle. The general health had been very good.
Conduct and discipline.—There had been three cases of absconding, and two of conspiring to abscond. With very few exceptions the general conduct had been very good. From the day of his coming to the school, a boy, if he behaves well, can earn about 4d. a month, and he goes up to 8d. a month. Monitors can earn 10d. additional; some boys also get a little extra for work; half of the mark money is given to the boy to spend, half is booked to him.
Educational state.—There were 17 boys in Standard Five: reading good; writing very good; 1 failure in dictation; 3 in arithmetic; work very neatly done. 50 in Standard Four: all passed in reading, writing, and dictation; 13 failed in arithmetic. 34 in Standard Three: reading and writing very fair; 3 failures in dictation; 1 in arithmetic. 42 in Standard Two: reading fair; writing very fair; 6 failures in dictation; 12 failures in arithmetic. 16 in Standard One: very moderate reading; very fair writing; 2 failed in arithmetic; rather a dull class. 9 in a preparatory class: mostly new-comers. Order and attention good.
Industrial training.—28 tailors, 47 match-box makers, 23 shoemakers, five joiners, some employed in garden, some in housework and laundry. Eight cows are kept, some pigs, and a horse.
Staff.—Superintendent, Mr. Garden; matron, Mrs. Garden; chaplain, the Rev. T. McEvoy; schoolmasters, Mr. Brotherhood, Mr. Kean, Mr. Mellon; tailor, shoemaker, joiner, three labour-masters, bailiff, night watchman, two servants.
Average number maintained, 168. Total cost for 1801, ₤3,238 12s. 4d.
Comparative cost per head on ordinary maintenance and management, ₤19. 5s. 6d.
Net cost per head, including profit or loss on industrial departments, ₤18. 12s. 3d.
Industrial profits, ₤333. 9s. 6d.
Results on cases discharged in the three years 1888, 1889, and 1890.— Of 179 discharged in 1888-90, there are doing well 120, dead 5, doubtful 4, convicted of crime 48, unknown 2.
I did see some newspaper reports of boys being sentenced to a number of years in an industrial school without a prison term. Presumably they were for lesser transgressions.
Hope that helps,
Alan
When I searched for “Parkhead Reformatory” in the 19th Century British Library newspapers, (Glasgow Herald, Aberdeen Journal and Dundee Courier), there were quite a lot of reports of Catholic boys being sent there from Dundee for various offences. Boys sent to Parkhead were first sent to prison followed by a number of years in the reformatory. Parkhead appears to have been specified if it was learned they were Catholic, perhaps there was nothing suitable closer. Possibly the Fife papers, if we were lucky enough to have any online, would have similar reports.
In about ten newspaper reports between 1885 and 1891 the crimes were almost all theft, the ages, where mentioned, were between 11 and 14, the sentence was consistently 10 days in prison, followed by from three to five years in Parkhead. All recipients were named.
1892 [C.6733] Thirty-fifth report, for the year 1891, of the inspector appointed, under the provisions of the act 5 & 6 Will. IV. c. 38., to visit the certified reformatory and industrial schools of Great Britain.
Parkhead Reformatory for Roman Catholic Boys, Westhorn Mills, Parkhead, near Glasgow.
Inspected June 6, 1891.
Number of inmates on day of inspection, boys, 173 under detention, and 38 on license.
State of premises.—Including the garden and fields there are about 12 acres of land. The premises were in good order; they are improved every year. The new buildings mentioned in last year's report have added much to the comfort and efficiency of the school. There is a large play-shed with good dormitory over it; the old dormitories are low, but not uncomfortable, and are well ventilated. There is a very good schoolroom and class-room, a large chapel, a good swimming bath, which can be heated, and a comfortable sick-room.
Health and general condition.—There had been one death from peritonitis. No boy had been discharged in consequence of ill-health. There had been two cases of pneumonia, one of meningitis, one of jaundice, and several cases of sore eyes. One boy had hurt his hand in the mangle. The general health had been very good.
Conduct and discipline.—There had been three cases of absconding, and two of conspiring to abscond. With very few exceptions the general conduct had been very good. From the day of his coming to the school, a boy, if he behaves well, can earn about 4d. a month, and he goes up to 8d. a month. Monitors can earn 10d. additional; some boys also get a little extra for work; half of the mark money is given to the boy to spend, half is booked to him.
Educational state.—There were 17 boys in Standard Five: reading good; writing very good; 1 failure in dictation; 3 in arithmetic; work very neatly done. 50 in Standard Four: all passed in reading, writing, and dictation; 13 failed in arithmetic. 34 in Standard Three: reading and writing very fair; 3 failures in dictation; 1 in arithmetic. 42 in Standard Two: reading fair; writing very fair; 6 failures in dictation; 12 failures in arithmetic. 16 in Standard One: very moderate reading; very fair writing; 2 failed in arithmetic; rather a dull class. 9 in a preparatory class: mostly new-comers. Order and attention good.
Industrial training.—28 tailors, 47 match-box makers, 23 shoemakers, five joiners, some employed in garden, some in housework and laundry. Eight cows are kept, some pigs, and a horse.
Staff.—Superintendent, Mr. Garden; matron, Mrs. Garden; chaplain, the Rev. T. McEvoy; schoolmasters, Mr. Brotherhood, Mr. Kean, Mr. Mellon; tailor, shoemaker, joiner, three labour-masters, bailiff, night watchman, two servants.
Average number maintained, 168. Total cost for 1801, ₤3,238 12s. 4d.
Comparative cost per head on ordinary maintenance and management, ₤19. 5s. 6d.
Net cost per head, including profit or loss on industrial departments, ₤18. 12s. 3d.
Industrial profits, ₤333. 9s. 6d.
Results on cases discharged in the three years 1888, 1889, and 1890.— Of 179 discharged in 1888-90, there are doing well 120, dead 5, doubtful 4, convicted of crime 48, unknown 2.
I did see some newspaper reports of boys being sentenced to a number of years in an industrial school without a prison term. Presumably they were for lesser transgressions.
Hope that helps,
Alan
-
Currie
- Posts: 3924
- Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Parkhead Reformatory West Thorn
Peter,
The Fife Herald is online at the British Newspaper Archive site but only up to December 1885, which is almost certainly too early for your fellow. Maybe they’ll add more recent issues later. It's possible only a minority of admissions made the newspapers. http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
I’m not sure of the situation regarding Parkhead Reformatory records. Maybe held by the Church authorities?
Alan
The Fife Herald is online at the British Newspaper Archive site but only up to December 1885, which is almost certainly too early for your fellow. Maybe they’ll add more recent issues later. It's possible only a minority of admissions made the newspapers. http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
I’m not sure of the situation regarding Parkhead Reformatory records. Maybe held by the Church authorities?
Alan
-
PeterS
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:41 pm
Re: Parkhead Reformatory West Thorn
Currie
It was good of you to take the time and trouble to come up with such a comprehensive reply.
I am surprised that a boy of that age would have spent time in prison. I suppose it was a way of shocking a boy and putting him on the right track. In the case of my grandfather it certainly worked as he spent all his life in the merchant navy, losing his life in the North Atlantic after his ship was torpedoed by a German submarine at the age of 63.
I intend to visit Scotland when the weather improves to do a bit more research.
Thank you.
Peter S
It was good of you to take the time and trouble to come up with such a comprehensive reply.
I am surprised that a boy of that age would have spent time in prison. I suppose it was a way of shocking a boy and putting him on the right track. In the case of my grandfather it certainly worked as he spent all his life in the merchant navy, losing his life in the North Atlantic after his ship was torpedoed by a German submarine at the age of 63.
I intend to visit Scotland when the weather improves to do a bit more research.
Thank you.
Peter S
-
Montrose Budie
- Posts: 713
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:37 pm
Re: Parkhead Reformatory West Thorn
Peter S
Think of a borstal rather than prison as a better modern day equivalent, see http://www.yourdictionary.com/borstal .
Reformatories back then included kids down to age 11, see above post from Currie.
I'm uncertain about the location of any surviving records, - could be National Archives of Scotland, or some local archive. An email to NAS would be well worth your while before venturing north.
mb
Think of a borstal rather than prison as a better modern day equivalent, see http://www.yourdictionary.com/borstal .
Reformatories back then included kids down to age 11, see above post from Currie.
I'm uncertain about the location of any surviving records, - could be National Archives of Scotland, or some local archive. An email to NAS would be well worth your while before venturing north.
mb
-
PeterS
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:41 pm
Re: Parkhead Reformatory West Thorn
Thanks mb. I'll do that
PeterS
PeterS