19th Century Girls Vs Boys Schooling

[sheilajim]

Hi All

Was there a difference in the schooling of Girls Vs Boys in the 19th Century, and probably later?

I have one GtGrandmother who couldn't even write her name, she signed with an X. I was quite shocked when I found this out. She was born about 1847 in Ayrshire, and was Roman Catholic.

I also have a GtGtGrandmother who also couldn't even sign her name, though her younger sister could. This GGGrandmother was born about 1827, in Renfrew County. The strange part about my GGGrandmother is that she was married to a School Teacher.

So far, at least, all my MALE ancestors could at least sign their names.
Does anyone know why this is?

Regards

Sheila

[Anne H]

Hi Sheila,

Were your ancestors from Ireland by any chance?

I noticed from my own ancestors that everyone from the Church of Scotland seemed to have had an education, both boys and girls, except the last one of my Hogg's I recently found who signed her MC with an "x" mark which really surprised me. On the other hand, all Roman Catholics who were originally from Ireland, with the exception of a couple of them, signed with an "X". I believe at one point the monks who educated those in Ireland were eventually forbidden to teach but I'm sure an expert will be along to answer your question soon.

Regards,

Anne H

[joette]

It has long been my experience that guid Scot children were given enough education so that they could read the bible& be able to sign their name.
We also have to understand that very often children were part of the economic viability of the family.
If you were Agriculturalists for example then the bairns could glean,pick stones,scare birds etc.In fact the school year is organised around the needs of an agricultural society when the weans were needed to harvest,plant etc.Weaving would be a family buisness ditto fishing.
In the 1851 Census my GGgrandfather is already an apprentice stonemason with his Father & brothers & he is 12 all ltravelling around Scotland plying their trade-all literate though.
Also as there were less labour saving devices & larger families then girls from a young age were expected to help in the house& take over the duties where neccesary.
For instance my Mum despite being a top student-Dux of her school was allowed to leave school at 13 because she was needed at home for the care of her siblings as her Mother was unwell & this was only in the forties!
Men were the breadwinners & the head of the family& thus their education would always? be given priority.

[emanday]

Undervaluing education for girls carried on, certainly in my case, into the middle of the 20th century!

My father's words, on the day I came home from school and asked if I could study Botany & Zoology so that I could go the Veterinary College and become a Vet.

"That level of education is wasted on a lassie. Yir better takin Commercial (shorthand, typing and book-keeping) gettin a nice wee job in an office and findin a nice man tae marry. You'll be dangling a waen on your knee by the time yir 21" This was in 1962

By the time I turned 24, and was still single and with very little interest in marrying he finally conceded "Mibbee ye were right hen"

Seven months after my 25th birthday I did get married to a lovely man I met only weeks my Dad's concession

[LesleyB]

Hi Mary,
... did you study the Botany & Zoology, or go for the nice wee job in an office? - the suspense is killin' me!!

Best wishes
Lesley

[emanday]

Somewhere in between, Lesley

I was forced to do the commercial subjects and hated every minute of it. True, I can type, but never grasped that shorthand business . As far as book-keeping was concerned; it was OK.

Up to 2 weeks before I actually left school I was made to apply for "nice wee office jobs" and even went for interviews. I even went after one in the Citizen newspaper where my sister worked. Her influence obviously couldn't overide the interviewer's impression that my heart wasn't in it

On the day before I left school, with two job offers having arrived in the post the previous day, the teacher charged with "Careers Advice" came into the class and announced that the local Vet was looking for an assistant to train as a Veterinary nurse

Not only was it a Vet; it was OUR Vet!!! Dog showing nuts, us lot!!

Know what? My Dad was delighted

[mallog]

Now that's what you call jammy.

As you say the thought then was that doing a commercial course was the best thing. I have to say that there were times later I used to think I would have been better doing that as there were more job opportunities available for that once you were married. I remember one interviewer telling me that if he gave me the job in my chosen profession at the time I would probably leave to have a child - as if men don''t move on to other things.

Mallog

[emanday]

Now that's what you call jammy.

As you say the thought then was that doing a commercial course was the best thing. I have to say that there were times later I used to think I would have been better doing that as there were more job opportunities available for that once you were married. I remember one interviewer telling me that if he gave me the job in my chosen profession at the time I would probably leave to have a child - as if men don''t move on to other things.

Mallog

If that happened today he'd be heading to court

[Russell]

Hi Ladies

If I can get back to Sheila's original question?

All the comments so far apply. Girls were always given less education than boys regardless of ability because opportunity to advance their education was nil. Even girls from moneyed families were less likely to have tutors than boys.
Parishes where there were schools (not all had) would concentrate on reading more than writing. This was so they could read the bible and develop into good Christians. Only the brightest had a chance to go on to more demanding subjets and then only if they were lucky enough to have a well educated school master and possibly someone to sponsor them.
Many of the Highland parishes were poor and could not provide a school so education would be sporadic.
In the 1800's as people moved into the towns and cities for work children would be put out to work to supplement the family income so schooling suffered even when they were legally supposed to attend school. It was only when the Child Labour Laws were brought in and school attendance enforced in the lat 1800's that literacy really improved.
Mary and Mallogs comments are right on the button though. Right into the 1960's girls were discouraged from learning more than basic Domestic Science and English. " You want to study Physics? Now why would a girl want to do that?" Then we wondered why we were short of Doctors/Scientists/Psychologists........ etc

Russell

[mallog]

" You want to study Physics? Now why would a girl want to do that?"

Russell

Cos I liked it !!!

Mallog