I WAS Surprised

[sheilajim]

Hi All

I was surprised yesterday to find out that My GGrandfather John Dunn McDonald died in a PoorHouse in Paisley.
I have had his Death Cert for about a year and a half, but hadn't noticed the address of where he died. The address didn't print out very well. I had assumed that he had been living as a lodger at the place where he was listed on the 1901 Census.

Yesterday evening, I was going over some of my old certs, when I took a better look at the address of where he was living when he died, and saw that it was the poorhouse. I was a little surprised to find this out as he had three sons and two daughters. At least two of the sons were also living in Paisley when he died. You would think that at least one of them would have wanted to help their poor old father.

He died in Nov. 1904. His age is listed as 74, but he is really 78. The cause of death is listed as a broken Femur, two months, so I assume that he died of complications resulting from some accident. The strange thing is that the informant of his death is listed as a grocer's clerk, and as far as I am aware of, no relation.

Somewhere on another post, somebody was mentioning that NAS would sent you information on old relatives who were in the PoorHouse. I have been looking for that thread but can't find it. Does anyone know where it is?

Regards

[AndrewP]

Hi Sheila,

See viewtopic.php?t=8797&start=30 and scroll down to the second-last post.

All the best,

Andrew

[Russell]

Hi Sheila

I agree with you that it's tragic that none of his off-spring could support him but when you look further into it there can be good reasons.
We found one of my wife's relatives in the City Poorhouse in Glasgow. Most of his family were still around but not one was in a position to help.
One daughter was struggling with several children and a husband who was in poor health and only working intermittently. One son was in the Army and could not be contacted, Another daughter was in service but living in and and probably earning a pittance herself. The only son who was fairly well off was an auctioneer in Paisley but he was supporting not only his wife and several children, he also had his father-in-law staying with them and in poor health.
We got some of this from his Poor Law records but confirmed some of it through census entries and other sources.
Most ordinary families were living on the edge themselves and 9 people squeezed into a single room would have a hard time making room for another especially if they were frail and to some extent dependent.

"The Good Old Days" I can only admire the tenacity they showed in raising their families under the most adverse circumstances.

Russell

[joette]

Couldn't agree more Russell.A different era with problems we can only imagine.
Also this was often the only way that the Poor could recieve medical aid.My Great-Great Grandfather had to recieve Poor Relief because he had an axillarry abcess which made it impossible to work.No antibiotics & with lots of little mouths to feed & no siblings or parents to help he had no choice.
With an elderly person fracturing their femur even today can mean a death sentence.It often leads to shock,thrombosis(because they are immobile or even form the actual fracture itself) pneumonia mainly because they would have been bedbound & also just giving up because they think they will be a burden.
No physios to get them back on their feet,no calcium/dietary supplements probably not even eating three squares a day.
I can see why families may have found it impossible to care for their loved ones-not lack of care just lack of resources

[emanday]

Hi Sheila,

My GGGrandfather also died in the poorhouse even though he had seven adult children, six of whom lived close by. His poor wife, 73 years old, was cleaning pubs for their landlord in lieu of rent!

The poorhouse record did show that at least one daughter did contribute, but there were remarks about the sons possibly being chased up by the authorities to help out.

However, as their earnings and the number of children they had were shown, I doubt if they could have helped very much either. Hard times, I think.

[Jack]

Hi Sheila,
It might also be worth contacting the very helpful Local Studies at the Paisley Reference Library.
Just give them all the details you have on John Dunn McDonald.
They will do their utmost to find a record.

But please don't build your hopes up too much that there will be one.
A few of my own rellies that died in the Abbey or Paisley Poorhouses have none.
It's not fully known why, at times, there is no record.
Was it because they were applying for medical treatment only? and not for monetary relief?
But this is just a guess.
Another point being that not all applications have survived.
--
http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ilwwcm/p ... ryHomePage
--
http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ilwwcm/p ... y-poor-law
--
I dearly hope there is one!
Jack

[sheilajim]

Hi All

Thank all of you for the information.
On reflection, I was probably going to fast on a "Rush to Judgement" on my Grandfather and his brother. Both of them had not been married long at the time. My grandfather was supporting my grandmother's 14 year old, brother at the time, not to mention two very small children. I know that my grandfather did not have much money, and had to work very hard to support his family.

Even so, it must have been hard on my poor GGrandfather and everybody else in such circumstances. You work hard all your life, get too old to work and land in the Poorhouse, where you die. I am so glad that I live today.

Thank you Jack for the thread. I will try to contact them to see if there is any information on my GGrandfather.

[sheilajim]

Hi Jack

Many thanks for your info, it has really paid off. You are an angel. Yesterday I contacted the Local Studies at Paisley. I got a reply from them this morning, informing me that they had a page of info on John McDonald, his parents and children. They told me that I could drop in and see it, or they would mail it to me for a small fee, only 3.75 Lbs. plus postage. I just e-mailed them back informing them that I lived in California and that I would like them to mail it to me, and asked if they would accept my Visa Card to pay for the fee and postage.

Thanks again,

[Jack]

Hi Sheila,
Thanks for the update - that was good news. Quick too!

As the library doesn't allow photocopies it will be a transcription of the record.
One of the reasons being that they don't have the proper equipment.
(the 2nd link above shows the size of the books! They're abt 4" thick)
So i hope it's an easy to read page! Some are very difficult.

However, if you ask, they will allow you to take a photo if visiting personally.
I know you can't, but maybe we have SKS in the Paisley area who has a digital camera?
I don't have one myself, but could try with a 35mm compact if no one can help.
Jack

[sheilajim]

Hi Jack

They really did answer me very quickly. i wish that everything was as quick as they are.

Thank you for the offer but I really don't mind a transcription. I probably won't find out much that I don't already know, except possibly the whereabouts of his twin daughters and youngest son, or maybe my GGrandfathers circumstances or his medical condition at the time. I know quite a lot about his parents, at least their births, marriage and deaths.

One thing that I find confusing is that he died in the Poorhouse, yet the informant of his death is a grocer's clerk. I would have thought the informant would have been an official at the Poorhouse. One more thing to puzzle over.

Cheer