Lauders in Perth or Falkirk

[mervl]

My Great Grandfather was a John McKay Lauder who was born in Bainsford, Falkirk. He was apparently a Candlemaker by trade who lived at 338 High Street in Perth or so I am told. Married a Jane Bradley in June 1874. Have little detail of John's ancestors except that his father was a William. Would like to know more about them. A gravestone in the Perth Cemetery records the death of John and Jane's daughter in 1875. The same year John and Jane came to NZ.
Can anyone point me in the right direction please.

[SarahND]

Hello Mervl,
Welcome to Talking Scot!

The following Lauder's are mentioned in the Perth Newspaper Index Card database up through 1875: (see viewtopic.php?t=10709 )

Janet Lauder (nee Patrick)
Flatfield House, Errol
Obit (12.1.50)
P Cou 1850 Jan 24 p2 col5

David Lauder
High Street
Sale of property advert
P Cou 1866 Jan 9 p1 col7

Doesn't look directly relevant to you, but in case...
Regards,
Sarah

[JustJean]

Hi there

You mention that you have the date of marriage but you didn't mention whether you had obtained a copy of their marriage certificate. This is available to purchase and view online or print off and/or download from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for a few credits. The marriage certificate will contain the information you'll need to locate John and Jane's parents and help you to work backwards. Not only will you learn their names but also the mothers' maiden names and whether the parents were still living at the time of their childrens 1874 marriage.

Best wishes
Jean

[AndrewP]

Hi Mervl,

At the time of the 1861 census, the family (parents William and Janet with their five children) were in Glassford, Lanarkshire. The census page can be downloaded from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for a small fee. Janet, although married, is shown by her maiden surname - McKay.

All the best,

AndrewP

[ChristineW]

Hello Meryl

On the IGI, there's a birth of a John Lauder on 18th December 1852 in Falkirk to parents William Lauder and Janet Mackay.

Also on the IGI, there is a marriage of William Lauder and Janet McKay in Blackford, Perth on 27th January, 1850.

Could be your John's parents - fingers crossed! (I may be wrong - however, it was John's middle name - Mckay/Mackay - that's set me down this road).

Christine

[speleobat2]

There is also:

Margaret Lauder
High Street
Obit. 24 Jan 1882


What's amusing about this is that I was looking at the Perth Index cards and found a Longmore possibly a relative of mine living at 80 High St. when he died in 1869. Then I clicked over to the new posts and here was Andlain with a relative living at 338 High St. about 1874!

There are 71 more Lauder's in the index cards for the years 1926-2002. Did you have any relatives still in Perth after John and Jane moved to NZ?

Carol

[mervl]

There is also:

Margaret Lauder
High Street
Obit. 24 Jan 1882

What's amusing about this is that I was looking at the Perth Index cards and found a Longmore possibly a relative of mine living at 80 High St. when he died in 1869. Then I clicked over to the new posts and here was Andlain with a relative living at 338 High St. about 1874!

There are 71 more Lauder's in the index cards for the years 1926-2002. Did you have any relatives still in Perth after John and Jane moved to NZ?

Carol

Thank you Carol. Yes, I have William Lauder and his wife Janet (nee McKay) living at 338 High Street.

I have to presume that William's siblings remained in Scotland when John McKay Lauder & his wife (Jane Bradley) moved to NZ in 1876. It is those siblings that I am looking for, so presumably I will find them in those index cards?

[speleobat2]

When I was looking at the Perth Index cards, I only found the three entries previously mentioned fromt the 1800's. The other 71 were from 1926 to 2002 and probably do contain some of your relatives. If you don't have the siblings names, you would need to search the census records from 1871 on to find the family relationships so you would know who to look for in the later index cards.

Carol

[SarahND]

I have to presume that William's siblings remained in Scotland when John McKay Lauder & his wife (Jane Bradley) moved to NZ in 1876. It is those siblings that I am looking for...

Hello there,
I am confused as to whether you are looking for John's siblings or his father William's siblings. If John's, here is a start following them forward every census:

1861
Glassford, Lanarkshire
William Lauder, 42, Head, born Anchterarda, Perthshire, Rail Rey Tinckeeper
Jane McKay, 42, Wife, born Balquihidder, Perthshire
David Lauder, 10, Son, born Blackford, Perthshire, Scholar
John McKay Lauder, 8, Son, born Burneford, Stirlingshire, Scholar
Ducan Alexr Lauder, 5, Son, born Burneford, Stirlingshire
Margaret Lauder, 2, Daughter, born Blantyre, Lanarkshire
Janet Lauder, 7Mo, Daughter, born Blantyre, Lanarkshire

Here's the family in 1871, mis-transcribed by Ancestry.com as Lander. All the children are still at home.

1871
350 High Street, Perth Burgh
William Lander, 52, Head, born Perthshire, Auchterarder, Coal Agent
Janet Lander, 52, Wife, born Perthshire, Balquhidder, Coal Agents Wife
David Lander, 20, Son, born Blackford, Millar
John Mck Lander, 18, Son, born Stirling, Falkirk, Candle Maker
Duncan A Lander, 16, Son, born Stirling, Falkirk, Joiner
Margaret Lander, 12, Daughter, born Lanarkshire, Blantyre, Scholar
Janet Mcl Lander, 9, Daughter, born Glassford, Scholar

By 1881 you know John is gone. Here is what is left of the family on High St:

1881
338 High St, Perth East Church, Perthshire
William Lauder, 62, Head, born Auchterarder, Perthsh, Coal Merchant
Janet Lauder, 62, Wife, born Balquhidder G, Perthsh, Coal Merchant Wife
Duncan A Lauder, 25, Son, born Falkirk, Stirlingsh, Joiner
Janet Lauder, 18, Daughter, born Glassford, Lanarksh, Factory Worker
Jessie Darroch, 29, Boarder, born Bonhill, Dumbarton, Staymaker

I don't see brother David in Scotland-- could he have gone to NZ also?
Margaret doesn't appear under the name Lauder, so I assumed she has married. Then noticed that the most likely Margaret was at the same address!

1881
338 High St, Perth East Church, Perthshire
Edward Kirshaw, 26, Head, born England, Carpet Weaver
Margaret Kirshaw, 22, Wife, born Blantyre, Lanarksh, Jute Weaver

In 1891, William and Janet are indexed under Lander again

19 St Cath Road, Perth East Church, Perthshire
William Lander, 72, Head, born Auchterarder, Perthshire, Coal Merchant
Janet Lander, 72, Wife, born Balquhder, Perthshre

David & John are still gone

Duncan is married to Margaret, with 5 children already!

1891
337 High St, Perth East Church, Perthshire
Duncan Lander, 35, Head, born Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Joiner
Margaret Lander, 30, Wife, born Perth, Perthshire
Elizabeth Lander, 8, Daur, born Perth, Perthshire, Scholar
William Lander, 6, Son, born Perth, Perthshire, Scholar
John Lander, 4, Son, born Perth, Perthshire, Scholar
Janet Lander, 2, Daur, born Perth, Perthshire, Scholar
Margaret Lander, 2Mo, Daughter, born Perth, Perthshire

Margaret and her husband are indexed under Hershaw, with 4 children now:

1891
No 22 Kinloch St, Dundee, Angus
Edward Hershaw, 37, Head, born England, Brussel Carpetweaver
Margaret Hershaw, 32, Wife, born Blantyre
Mary Hershaw, 9, Daur, born Perth, Perthshire, Scholar
Emma Hershaw, 8, Daur, born Perth, Perthshire, Scholar
William L Hershaw, 6, Son, born Perth, Perthshire, Scholar
Maggie Hershaw, 4 Mo, Daur, born Dundee, Forfarshire

Janet must have married also, but I'm having trouble narrowing it down with any confidence.

Is this the kind of information you are looking for, or are you actually looking for William's siblings?

All the best,
Sarah

Edit later: Just to finish this up, by 1901 both William and Janet are gone...

There is a William Lauder, born 1819, who died in Perth in 1891 (this I got by playing with the free search function on Scotland's People). It may be worthwhile to purchase the certificate, as his parents should be listed.

By the same method, I see there is a Janet Lauder, other surname MacKay, born in 1818, who died in Peterhead, Aberdeenshire in 1897. Hmmm This place is a bit less obvious... unless one of her children was living there at the time.

I don't find anyone in the family in 1901 in Scotland Have they all gone to NZ or elsewhere? If so, perhaps they took their mother along and she died wherever that was. Or... that could be she in Peterhead.

FINALLY found Margaret and family in England:

1901
District 4, Soothill Upper, Yorkshire, England
Edward Kershaw, Head, 48, Carpet Weaver, born Yorks, Halifax
Maggie, wife, 43, born Scotland
Mary, Daur, 19, Carpet Weaver, born Scotland
Emma, Daur, 18, Carpet Sewer, born Scotland
William, Son, 16, Apprentice Mechanic, born Scotland
Maggie, Daur, 10, born Scotland
Beatrice, Daur, 6, born Yorks Dewsbury
Maude, Daur, 5, born Yorks Balley

All the best,
Sarah

Edit again: Have you seen this? http://genforum.genealogy.com/lauder/messages/69.html
Someone else out there is looking for Duncan and family in NZ.

[mervl]

That information is great. Thank you very much. I will wade through it soon, but at a glance it looks very relevant to me and some of the dates at least add up.

The enquiry about Duncan is from my Third Cousin(?) in Canada. Duncan Alexander Lauder was a younger brother of my G Grandfather, John McKay Lauder.

I will make contact again.
Merv