Impossible name .....

HK · Post by HK » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:47 am

Hi all,
I've got a Jane McIlwee she married my Robert Henry Haldane .
On her marriage cert. her parents are William McIlwee and Prudence Stewart.I can find no sign of her parents marriage no matter how I spell their names.(I'm pretty sure of Prudence Stewart though as the name is still in the family ,as is Prudence McIlwee)On Jane's death cert. her father is listed as John McIlwee.I found a marriage for :

19 Feb 1848
Stewert Pruden,John Meiklewee ,Kilwinning

I can't find any children for this couple.

On Jane's 1870 marriage to Robert she says she's from Neilston , is 18
and her father is deceased.
(Jane sign's with an "X")
On the 1891 census she is listed as having been born in Neilston.

Any ideas how I can find anything on Jane's birth and her parents families?

HeatherK

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:05 am

Hi HeatherK

I've found the DC for Prudence but I'm afraid the information only makes me more confused. First I looked for someone/anyone named McIlwee and all variants born in Neilston but that got boring real fast. So then I got to thinking that perhaps Prudence STEWART MCILWEE might still be living in 1881 so I had a look see there but was about to give up when I found this record:

Dwelling: 21 Herriot St
Census Place: Eastwood, Renfrew, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203568 GRO Ref Volume 562 EnumDist 9 Page 32
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Eliz. HENDERSON W 50 F Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Bleacher
Prudence STEWART W 67 F Greenock
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Bleacher
Marg. GILLORAN U 30 F Paisley
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Bleacher

So then I decided to track down the death of the above Prudence just so we could eliminate her. I found her in the 1891 Census still living in Neilston though which made my heart quicken a bit. Had a peek at the view and saw that she had only aged 5 years and was employed as a servant/housekeeper. So then I say what the heck maybe she's still living in 1901 if she only ages 5 years to everyone elses 10

....but I can't find her. Big problem too is that I can't find her death either. Hmmmm....one last ditch effort and I throw in a search for a death of Prudence MCILWEE. Guess what? Bingo....

1 1900 MCILWEE PRUDENCE F 74 BARRHEAD AND LEVERN RENFREW 572/02 0054

You'll be interested to note that her son-in-law was the informant. Unfortunately her mother is not listed and her father's name only confuses me!! You may need to consult with the real experts on this one cause my bag of tricks is now empty

Best wishes
Jean

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:23 am

JustJean wrote:Hi HeatherK

I've found the DC for Prudence but I'm afraid the information only makes me more confused. First I looked for someone/anyone named McIlwee and all variants born in Neilston but that got boring real fast. So then I got to thinking that perhaps Prudence STEWART MCILWEE might still be living in 1881 so I had a look see there but was about to give up when I found this record:

Dwelling: 21 Herriot St
Census Place: Eastwood, Renfrew, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203568 GRO Ref Volume 562 EnumDist 9 Page 32
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Eliz. HENDERSON W 50 F Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Bleacher
Prudence STEWART W 67 F Greenock
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Bleacher
Marg. GILLORAN U 30 F Paisley
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Bleacher

So then I decided to track down the death of the above Prudence just so we could eliminate her. I found her in the 1891 Census still living in Neilston though which made my heart quicken a bit. Had a peek at the view and saw that she had only aged 5 years and was employed as a servant/housekeeper. So then I say what the heck maybe she's still living in 1901 if she only ages 5 years to everyone elses 10 ....but I can't find her. Big problem too is that I can't find her death either. Hmmmm....one last ditch effort and I throw in a search for a death of Prudence MCILWEE. Guess what? Bingo....

1 1900 MCILWEE PRUDENCE F 74 BARRHEAD AND LEVERN RENFREW 572/02 0054

You'll be interested to note that her son-in-law was the informant. Unfortunately her mother is not listed and her father's name only confuses me!! You may need to consult with the real experts on this one cause my bag of tricks is now empty

Best wishes
Jean

Hi Jean

What impressed me on the suspended GROS SP DG was the number of posters who developed their expertise to the extent that they were able to provide excellent advice to newbies, and, thereby, reduce the load on the original, "resident" experts.

I'm a very happy person to see that the same is happening here!!

While I haven't checked the details of your research in this particular instance, I can only comment that I like the logic !!

I cannot but believe that the records you have found are not connected, and wouldn't be that concerned about the further confusion, especially when death register entries are involved, - the basic problem being that the info can only be as good as that supplied by the informant.

Orraverybest

Davie

HK · Post by HK » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:13 pm

Thanks Jean,I never thought to look for her death.I got too wrapped up in untangling her marriage.I see the problem with her father's name being Paul McIlwee.I wonder the registrar didn't comment on that.

HK

HK · Post by HK » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:29 pm

I had a look for John/William's death.There were 3 for John 1899,1930,and 1931.As her father was deceased at the time for Jane's marriage in 1870 I went for William.I found 1861 and 1889.The 1861 was a Ginger Beer Manufacturer who died of Bronchitis in the Paisley Poor House.I don't know if that makes things better or worse yet.
HK
I forgot to mention,under his name where it says married to: It's blank.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:34 pm

Hi Folks,

There is a widow Prudence STEWART in 1851. I'm guessing she is living in Barrhead as i think the address could be Cross Arthurlie - this is only a mile or so NE of Neilston.
Can't see any other Prudence in Ayrshire or Renfrewshire 1851 that might fit namewise, and she may not even be the mother of Jane McIlwee at all. Though i have come across a few children born after their father has died.

http://www.barrhead-scotland.com/Cultur ... census.asp
--
First Name: PRUDENCE
Last Name: STEWART
Sex: FA
Age: 28
Occupation: BLEACHER
Address: CROSS A. PAIS.RD
House: 00132
Place of Birth: GREENOCK
County: REN
C: W
Relative: LODG
Enumerator and page number 1340
-----------------
Jane McILWEE is as 18 on her 1870 MC to Robert HALDANE - making her birth about 1852. This 1881 census makes for an 1849 birth, but i can't see a Jane to suit in 1851 censuses for Renfrewshire or Ayrshire - so her birth is more likely to be 1851/1852.
--
1881 Census Place: Neilston, Renfrew, Scotland
Dwelling: Kelburn St Andersons Land
Source: FHL Film 0203580 GRO Ref Volume 572-2 EnumDist 1 Page 5
Robert H. HALDANE M 37 M Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Gen Labourer In Printfield
Jane HALDANE M 32 F Neilston, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife Occ: Gen Labourer Wife
Robert H. HALDANE 6 M Barrhead, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
Andrew HALDANE 4 M Neilston, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son
John HALDANE 2 M Barrhead, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son
[seems Elizabeth 1872 & Prudence Stuart 1873 have both died young]
--

Jack

HK · Post by HK » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:49 pm

Elizabeth and Prudence both died a day apart of scarlet fever the day before Prudence's 2nd B'day.5th and 6th July 1875.Robert wasn't born until Dec. 15 ,1875.
I've been leaning towards Jane being born in 1852 give or take a year myself,though on 2 occasions I widened the search dates ridiculously.No go.So I can't find Robert Henry Haldane's birth though with the help of the group I was able to find siblings that I can varify on SP.I can't find his wife Jane's birth.Is there something about that time range 1847-1852 where a number of records in many places are missing bits or am I just lucky with these two?
HK

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:38 pm

Jack wrote:Hi Folks,

There is a widow Prudence STEWART in 1851. I'm guessing she is living in Barrhead as i think the address could be Cross Arthurlie - this is only a mile or so NE of Neilston.
Can't see any other Prudence in Ayrshire or Renfrewshire 1851 that might fit namewise, and she may not even be the mother of Jane McIlwee at all. Though i have come across a few children born after their father has died.

http://www.barrhead-scotland.com/Cultur ... census.asp
--
First Name: PRUDENCE
Last Name: STEWART
Sex: FA
Age: 28
Occupation: BLEACHER
Address: CROSS A. PAIS.RD
House: 00132
Place of Birth: GREENOCK
County: REN
C: W
Relative: LODG
Enumerator and page number 1340
-----------------
Jane McILWEE is as 18 on her 1870 MC to Robert HALDANE - making her birth about 1852. This 1881 census makes for an 1849 birth, but i can't see a Jane to suit in 1851 censuses for Renfrewshire or Ayrshire - so her birth is more likely to be 1851/1852.
--
1881 Census Place: Neilston, Renfrew, Scotland
Dwelling: Kelburn St Andersons Land
Source: FHL Film 0203580 GRO Ref Volume 572-2 EnumDist 1 Page 5
Robert H. HALDANE M 37 M Hawick, Roxburgh, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Gen Labourer In Printfield
Jane HALDANE M 32 F Neilston, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Wife Occ: Gen Labourer Wife
Robert H. HALDANE 6 M Barrhead, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
Andrew HALDANE 4 M Neilston, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son
John HALDANE 2 M Barrhead, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son
[seems Elizabeth 1872 & Prudence Stuart 1873 have both died young]
--

Jack

Hi Jack,

At the same address as Prudence STEWART on that 1851 census is a Jean MCILIVIE aged 2 born Kilwinning. Still no sign of her on the IGI but surely this has to be Jane MCILWEE.

Annette M

HK · Post by HK » Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:16 am

If this is my Jane/Jean then she was born in 1849 to be 2 on the 1851 census.Would the fact that her Mum is going by Prudence Stewart mean that she was not married to anyone at this time,as she would then use married name?So that might explain why I can't find the marriage.
Thanks Jean,Jack and Annette.
HK

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:41 am

nelmit wrote:
At the same address as Prudence STEWART on that 1851 census is a Jean MCILIVIE aged 2 born Kilwinning. Still no sign of her on the IGI but surely this has to be Jane MCILWEE.

Annette M

I am so grateful that you picked up this fact Annette!!! I've been wishing all day I could get my hands on the 1861 census (which isn't possible to do just yet!!!) just to see if Jane was with Prudence then. Thanks to you and Jack the mystery is solved!!

Jean