Registering death of a baby, 1912

Birth, Marriage, Death

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Susie Q
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:13 pm
Location: Doncaster, South Yorkshire

Registering death of a baby, 1912

Post by Susie Q » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:06 pm

Hello All,
The baby in question is Isabella Grace Fleming, born in 1912 in Torphichen.
Her mother, of the same name, ( m.s. Chalmers ) died on 14th July, 1912. COD was placenta praevia, so I'm assuming she died in childbirth and that the bairn died too.
The thing is, I can't find a death cert. for the wee one. Was one bound to register an infant death ?

Regards
Cath
Surname Interests
SANAGHAN, N. Ireland, Lanarkshire, Fife
FLEMING, Bathgate, Fife
ARMOUR, MAILLIE, Ayrshire, West Calder
GIBBONS, Ireland, Lasswade, Fife

Russell
Posts: 2559
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Location: Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire
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Post by Russell » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:03 pm

Hi Cath

The simple answer is YES. It was a legal obligation to register a death if the original birth had been registered. That was the purpose of the legislation brought in in 1855.
All live births needed to be registered even if the infant survived only an hour or two after being born.
Still births were not registered.
We have the birth of twins in our tree at about that time. both births were registered and appear on the same page of the register. The first little girl lasted only a few hours and dided the same day. The other girl survived almost 36 hours and her death too was on the same page as her twin. So sad, as the mother was unable to have any more children and loved young ones.

Russell

An afterthought " perhaps she was registered under a variant of her name e.g. without her middle name or a different spelling of her forename :!: "
Working on: Oman, Brock, Miller/Millar, in Caithness.
Roan/Rowan, Hastings, Sharp, Lapraik in Ayr & Kirkcudbrightshire.
Johnston, Reside, Lyle all over the place !
McGilvray(spelt 26 different ways)
Watson, Morton, Anderson, Tawse, in Kilrenny

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:09 pm

Hi Cath
On SP there is a death in Midlothian for Isabella Fleming, 1912, aged 0-1- could that be the one you are looking for?

Best wishes
Lesley

Alcluith
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:19 pm

Still Births

Post by Alcluith » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:10 am

My great grandmother had twins, one stillborn, the second a boy was registered and died a few months old. Both buried in same unmarked plot.

The only reason that family know this was that my grandmother informed an aunt one day visiting the graveyard.

We have the birth/death certificates for the surviving twin, but with no indication that he was a twin.
Apart from the verbal history we would never have known about these twins.

My wife's grandmother also lost twins and again nothing anywhere except verbal history.

In this day and age would it not make more sense to register all birth & deaths ???

dd
Burns, Quinn - Glasgow, N.Ireland
McLeod, Mackay, Nicholson, McNeil - Skye
James, McLeod, Sinclair, Smith - Renton
Davidson,Adie, Gibb - Aberdeen
Jolly Wishart - Angus
Usher - Newcastle
Mullen, Roe - Dublin
O'Donnell - Ireland, Alexandria

AndrewP
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Re: Still Births

Post by AndrewP » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:22 am

Alcluith wrote:In this day and age would it not make more sense to register all birth & deaths ???
Hi Drew,

I am fairly sure that it goes back to the start of statutory registration in 1855 that all live births should be registered, even if the life was only minutes or hours long. Then similarly all deaths should be registered, including those whose lives were only minutes or hours long.

Still births are the exeption. That register starts from the 1930s (1939 I think), but is not open to the public, not even as an index. Prior to the 1930s any birth which was not live went unregistered.

All the best,

AndrewP

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:45 pm

Hi all
On attempting to replicate the search above I now cannot find that Isabella Fleming aged 0-1 in Midlothian. I think there must have been some gremlins at work or my brain must have been ahead of my clicking the other night :roll: as now that Isabella turns up as dying in Glasgow City, which seems unlikely to be the correct one.

However, there is a Isabella Fleming, born 1912, died 1914 in Midlothian - but she is Isabella Agnes Fleming, so clearly not the correct one. My apologies for inadvertantly leading you all up the garden path!

Best wishes
Lesley

Russell
Posts: 2559
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire
Contact:

Post by Russell » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:51 pm

Hi Lesley

Genealogy, as you know well, is like door-to-door canvassing. We all go up loads of garden paths to be met with negative answers. If we do hit on the correct path all the other 'failures' fade into insignificance and we dance our way down the street.

Russell
Working on: Oman, Brock, Miller/Millar, in Caithness.
Roan/Rowan, Hastings, Sharp, Lapraik in Ayr & Kirkcudbrightshire.
Johnston, Reside, Lyle all over the place !
McGilvray(spelt 26 different ways)
Watson, Morton, Anderson, Tawse, in Kilrenny

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:05 pm

"Placenta praevia" doesn't always result in the death of the child. A normal vaginal birth is possible when the condition is partial. If it's total, then a Caesarean is possible.

The full CoD is shown as "Placenta praevia anaemia".

What does the 1912 birth record show as the place of birth?

There is the death of a Jessie J A FLEMING in Torphichin, aged 61, in Torphichen in 1972? .............

dww

Susie Q
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:13 pm
Location: Doncaster, South Yorkshire

Post by Susie Q » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:38 pm

David,
According to the Index, she was born in Torphichen. Why would you think that Jessie might be Isabella ? Is this a weird diminutive I'm not aware of ?
Cath
Surname Interests
SANAGHAN, N. Ireland, Lanarkshire, Fife
FLEMING, Bathgate, Fife
ARMOUR, MAILLIE, Ayrshire, West Calder
GIBBONS, Ireland, Lasswade, Fife

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:23 pm

Susie Q wrote:David,
According to the Index, she was born in Torphichen. Why would you think that Jessie might be Isabella ? Is this a weird diminutive I'm not aware of ?
Cath
Cath

I'm not suggesting that Isabella is Jessie, just highlighting an interesting coincidence in terms of surname, place, and age.

That written, the stresses surrounding a death and the subsequent registration are well known to have lead to major errors. And if the informant wasn't a close relative............

I'm an experience genealogist, so I'd get a death registration correct? Wrong! When registering the death of my father-in-law in 2000, I nearly got the maiden name of his mother wrong. Thankfully, this was picked up on the doublecheck before the info was "entered" into the system, - the registration office involved were one of the first to be tied into the GROS electronic registration system .........

Many such an apparant coincidence has turned out to have some significance or use.

dww

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