It has been brought to my notice that I did in fact lose the plot and that the James in Clackmannan can’t be the son of the James in Edinburgh because he already has a son James born around the same time as per the 1841 census.
Please ignore the last two paragraphs of my previous post and await further developments.
Alan
Harder than Cryptic Crosswords
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nelmit
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innjess
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Wow! I'm blown away! The next few weeks will see me sifting through all this information! Meantime, I'd like to put down a few answers to some of the queries/points made.
Nelmit/Annette. Yes - the same William Murray Hutchison. Died in West Ham , London, 1918. He had three wives, one of whom, Janet Innes, gave birth to my Grandfather William Innes, in 1866.
Currie. Going back, my GGGGrandfather, James born 1750 (reputedly a Drum Major in the Suffolk Regiment and who settled in Fife), married Elizabeth Crawford in 1771 (Banns), and their 10th child was James, my GGGrandfather, born 17/10/1792. I believe he married Euphemia Skinner on 5/12/1830, and he was a "shoemaker and later a "Gourk of Law Tarlemont (?Parliament ) House Porter" (more later!). I believe, too, that he married Helen Todd on 21/5/1840 (note that the copy of the Marriage Cert shows "Isabella" is crossed out in favour of "Helen) , and my GGrandfather, William Murray, was born to Helen on 11/4/1841. The real "downer" is that on his Marriage Certificate of 16/4/1863, his father is stated as "James Horsburgh Hutchison Parliament House Officer Deceased" and his mother as Euphemia Hutchison M.S. Skinner Deceased."
I have an original, carbon copy of a letter written by William Murray Hutchison dated 12/1/1914 that states "I was the second youngest of 16". This gainsays the evidence of James Hutchison/Helen Todd's record of their children OPR and LDDS), where William Murray Hutchison is their oldest child!
In the same letter he states that his father, James Hutchison was born in Fifeshire in 1792" and " he was a shoe maker by trade". After moving to Edinburgh "he went into business again at his old trade". However, he also says that his father later "got an appointment as an attendant on one of the Judges of the High Courts of Session in Parliament Square", becoming "a Burgess and Freeman of the City of Edinburgh, having become qualified to become such through being in business for three consecutive years, and paying rates on a rental of 30 Pounds".
All this may well be absolute twaddle, of course, but it sure adds spice to the investigative work! With my wife, I'm beginning to think he may have been a bigamist!
I'm now going to take a Bex (aspirin), as the Aussies say and have a good lie down, before tackling all this again.
Innes Hutchison
PS This has been written before I have thoroughly analysed all the posts received, so forgive me if I have omitted to answer some points made.
Nelmit/Annette. Yes - the same William Murray Hutchison. Died in West Ham , London, 1918. He had three wives, one of whom, Janet Innes, gave birth to my Grandfather William Innes, in 1866.
Currie. Going back, my GGGGrandfather, James born 1750 (reputedly a Drum Major in the Suffolk Regiment and who settled in Fife), married Elizabeth Crawford in 1771 (Banns), and their 10th child was James, my GGGrandfather, born 17/10/1792. I believe he married Euphemia Skinner on 5/12/1830, and he was a "shoemaker and later a "Gourk of Law Tarlemont (?Parliament ) House Porter" (more later!). I believe, too, that he married Helen Todd on 21/5/1840 (note that the copy of the Marriage Cert shows "Isabella" is crossed out in favour of "Helen) , and my GGrandfather, William Murray, was born to Helen on 11/4/1841. The real "downer" is that on his Marriage Certificate of 16/4/1863, his father is stated as "James Horsburgh Hutchison Parliament House Officer Deceased" and his mother as Euphemia Hutchison M.S. Skinner Deceased."
I have an original, carbon copy of a letter written by William Murray Hutchison dated 12/1/1914 that states "I was the second youngest of 16". This gainsays the evidence of James Hutchison/Helen Todd's record of their children OPR and LDDS), where William Murray Hutchison is their oldest child!
In the same letter he states that his father, James Hutchison was born in Fifeshire in 1792" and " he was a shoe maker by trade". After moving to Edinburgh "he went into business again at his old trade". However, he also says that his father later "got an appointment as an attendant on one of the Judges of the High Courts of Session in Parliament Square", becoming "a Burgess and Freeman of the City of Edinburgh, having become qualified to become such through being in business for three consecutive years, and paying rates on a rental of 30 Pounds".
All this may well be absolute twaddle, of course, but it sure adds spice to the investigative work! With my wife, I'm beginning to think he may have been a bigamist!
I'm now going to take a Bex (aspirin), as the Aussies say and have a good lie down, before tackling all this again.
Innes Hutchison
PS This has been written before I have thoroughly analysed all the posts received, so forgive me if I have omitted to answer some points made.
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innjess
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This is a PS to the previous post - knew I'd forgotten something!
William Murray Hutchison's letter also stated that "of his (father James') first wife's family I know nothing. They are all dead" (in 1916). So if Euphemia was not his first wife, then I have been unable to determine who was!
Innes[/i]
William Murray Hutchison's letter also stated that "of his (father James') first wife's family I know nothing. They are all dead" (in 1916). So if Euphemia was not his first wife, then I have been unable to determine who was!
Innes[/i]
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nelmit
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Hello Innes,
Here is James born Fife around 1794 in 1861 as Alan posted earlier- his occupation matches what you know about him from the letter. This is the same James we found earlier in 1841 & 1851. In my opinion this is William Murray Hutchison's father.
William was the second youngest of his children - Salvo being the youngest and James had been married before Euphemia.
If you search for James's death on SP it will hopefully show his first wife's name as well as his parents.
Helen Todd and James Hutchison are a completely different family and the boy you found born Clackmannan in 1841 is not your William.
James Hutchison
Age: 67
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1794
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Cupar, Fifeshire
Registration Number: 685/4
Registration district: St Giles
Civil Parish: Edinburgh Buccleuch
County: Midlothian
Address: 19 West Crosscauseway
Occupation: Fundholder
ED: 57
Household schedule number: 36
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1861_128
Household Members: Name Age
Euphemia Hutchison 23
James Hutchison 67
Salva Hutchison 15
Euphemia Reid 4 Mo
William Reid
I'm sure Alan or Jack will add to this info.
Got to go to work now.
Kind regards,
Annette
Here is James born Fife around 1794 in 1861 as Alan posted earlier- his occupation matches what you know about him from the letter. This is the same James we found earlier in 1841 & 1851. In my opinion this is William Murray Hutchison's father.
William was the second youngest of his children - Salvo being the youngest and James had been married before Euphemia.
If you search for James's death on SP it will hopefully show his first wife's name as well as his parents.
Helen Todd and James Hutchison are a completely different family and the boy you found born Clackmannan in 1841 is not your William.
James Hutchison
Age: 67
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1794
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Cupar, Fifeshire
Registration Number: 685/4
Registration district: St Giles
Civil Parish: Edinburgh Buccleuch
County: Midlothian
Address: 19 West Crosscauseway
Occupation: Fundholder
ED: 57
Household schedule number: 36
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1861_128
Household Members: Name Age
Euphemia Hutchison 23
James Hutchison 67
Salva Hutchison 15
Euphemia Reid 4 Mo
William Reid
I'm sure Alan or Jack will add to this info.
Got to go to work now.
Kind regards,
Annette
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Currie
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Hello Innes,
I agree with Annette’s assessment. According to what’s in the letter your William Murray Hutchison fits perfectly into the Edinburgh family apart from the numbers of known children in the count and the unfortunate circumstance that he wasn’t at home in 1851. It is only when the William b 41 Clackmannan and his Hutchison/Todd parents are brought into the mix that things start to go haywire.
You even have a story of a previous marriage for the James born 1792 who would have had plenty of time to produce enough kids during that marriage to make up the total numbers to 16. The 1792 James was born Cupar, the known children of the first marriage appear to have been born there, the 1830 marriage to Euphemia Skinners took place there as did the birth of the earlier children of that marriage.
The only child coming up on IGI parent search for the Hutchison/Skinners combination is Salvo. The others appearing as Elisabeth, Euphemy, Agnus, Esibell on the 1841 census and your William, likely born after the census but before Salvo, don’t appear in the search results.
The known children that are obviously from the earlier Hutchison/Unknown combination namely James and especially Janet may be traceable and their marriage or death certificates, if after 1855, may reveal the name of the unknown mother. As mentioned by Annette this info may also be on James b.1792 death certificate which would be the first step to take. Presumably this would be between the 1861 census and the son’s 1863 marriage when he was shown as deceased.
Hope I haven’t got any of that upside down and it makes sense,
Alan
I agree with Annette’s assessment. According to what’s in the letter your William Murray Hutchison fits perfectly into the Edinburgh family apart from the numbers of known children in the count and the unfortunate circumstance that he wasn’t at home in 1851. It is only when the William b 41 Clackmannan and his Hutchison/Todd parents are brought into the mix that things start to go haywire.
You even have a story of a previous marriage for the James born 1792 who would have had plenty of time to produce enough kids during that marriage to make up the total numbers to 16. The 1792 James was born Cupar, the known children of the first marriage appear to have been born there, the 1830 marriage to Euphemia Skinners took place there as did the birth of the earlier children of that marriage.
The only child coming up on IGI parent search for the Hutchison/Skinners combination is Salvo. The others appearing as Elisabeth, Euphemy, Agnus, Esibell on the 1841 census and your William, likely born after the census but before Salvo, don’t appear in the search results.
The known children that are obviously from the earlier Hutchison/Unknown combination namely James and especially Janet may be traceable and their marriage or death certificates, if after 1855, may reveal the name of the unknown mother. As mentioned by Annette this info may also be on James b.1792 death certificate which would be the first step to take. Presumably this would be between the 1861 census and the son’s 1863 marriage when he was shown as deceased.
Hope I haven’t got any of that upside down and it makes sense,
Alan
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Currie
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Back again Innes,
I just found something interesting. If you click on this link http://www.gencircles.com/users/junestr ... ?Hutchison you’ll find a list of 60 or so Hutchison’s. On the second page the “Hutchison, James horsborough” link will take you to submitted information about the family, including notes at the bottom of some pages.
They have the death as 18 Sep 1861 in Edinburgh, but don’t say where the information came from. You’ll find a Submitter Info link on the left and a contact address.
Alan
I just found something interesting. If you click on this link http://www.gencircles.com/users/junestr ... ?Hutchison you’ll find a list of 60 or so Hutchison’s. On the second page the “Hutchison, James horsborough” link will take you to submitted information about the family, including notes at the bottom of some pages.
They have the death as 18 Sep 1861 in Edinburgh, but don’t say where the information came from. You’ll find a Submitter Info link on the left and a contact address.
Alan