any ideas anyone

[Justjan]

Annette
i only have the one Brushmaker , for both James and Joseph , i onlt have the marriage cert to go on as all children were born at same add and she singed ones i looked at , 64 st james road glasgow

[Justjan]

still no hits either SP or FHS , for a stewart ,harrison or harris

[Justjan]

Name: Martha Marton
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: Archibald
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Irland
Registration Number: 644/1
Registration district: Central District
Civil parish: Glasgow Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Taylor St Or 64 St Jameser Road
Occupation: Book Folder
ED: 114
Household schedule number: 89
Line: 11
Roll: CSSCT1861_97
Household Members:
Name Age
Archibald Marton 49
Mary Ann Marton 43
Mary Ann Marton 21
Martha Marton 19

and this is the add they have on marriage

[Justjan]

Name: Archibald Martin
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 644/1
Registration district: Central District
Civil parish: Glasgow Inner High
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 71 St James Rd
Occupation: Letter Press Printer
ED: 71
Household schedule number: 26
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1871_124
Household Members:
Name Age
Archibald Martin 60
Mary Ann Martin 54
Archibald M Stewart 7
grandson lived with them through out , and after he married

[killearnan]

still no hits either SP or FHS , for a stewart ,harrison or harris

If the family was Free Church or related non-established churches, the records aren't currently listed at SP, which has the Church of Scotland's register books held at the General Register Office.

The non-conformist records are held at the National Archives of Scotland and have not yet been digitized. Here's hoping they are in the (near!) future.... I've got a few ancestors likely hiding in them somewhere

While a few people from various non-established churches have baptisms/marriages/burials listed in the OPRs, it is very hit or miss.

Since you say James was married according to the forms of the Free Church, it is likely that his family had a history of non-conforming, and therefore may well not have had him baptized at a church where an entry would have been made in a register that is now held at the GRO and indexed at SP.

So, where to go.....

1) Looking at what people found for you a month ago (thanks, Nelmit, for linking to that thread! Missed it when I was making up for my TS withdrawal after being off-line for Yom Kippur), I'm guessing it is highly likely that James and/or Mary Ann died -- James between when Edward was conceived and the 1871 census, Mary Ann between when Edward was born and the 1871 census -- as that would be a highly probable scenario for Archibald to be with relatives and the other 3 surviving children to be at the poorhouse. Definitely worth getting the poorhouse record, if it is available. Might list any relevant death dates [so you can find the death record], or the parents' current location and the reason they aren't able to care for the children if James and Mary Ann were still alive. The poorhouse record might even have more details on where James was from, even if he's not there himself, if a diligent worker did a good intake on the three children you've found there.

2) If that doesn't work..... hhhhmmmm.... I'd be really curious where James is in 1861. While it is possible he got missed completely by the census takers forr 1841, 1851, and 1861, it does seem to push the edge of believability So I think I might ask some questions about where in Glasgow he was likely to have been living in 1861, given where he was later in the decade, and order the microfilms of the census returns at a Family History Center. Glasgow is large enough that doing this could be a major undertaking. But if you have several addresses from children's births (or if he stayed at one address for all of them), you may be able to narrow down to the most likely possible enumeration districts with the help of someone who knows Glasgow well. [Yes, it can be a major undertaking... but I've done it for an elusive ancestor in Edinburgh......]

(Note to this: one reason to find him on the census..... was he born in Ireland like his wife seems to have been? If so, skip next question.....)

3) How many non-conforming churches were there in Glasgow in the mid/late 1830s? [I don't know the answer, as I've basically not done much research on that side of the country.] Once again, if you can narrow down the possibilities based on what you know from his marriage record, there may only be 2 to 5 churches, and you could either go to the NAS {to look at the surviving non-conformist registers they have} yourself or pay a researcher to check for baptism records for James.

Hope this helps,
BJ

[grannysrock]

Mary Ann Stewart married to James Stewart brushmaker journeyman died of metritis aged 31 on October 22 1870 at 65 St James Road , Parents Archibald Martin and Mary Stewart. Informant Archibald Martin, father.
For some odd reason her death is only indexed as Martin and not Stewart - just to make it harder !!!!

Interesting that James was not the informant ....

Hope this is of some use

Sally

[Justjan]

gee whizz , no wonder i couldnt find it , as you say odd James hasnt signed , but he hadnt signed any of childrens births either ,
wonder where he went ? odd one eh can see now why the children went to poorhouse ,
awwww wee shame, but least we know , guess hes moved on , unless he was still at that add in 1871
many thanks

[carlineric]

I am begining to think James had died sometime in 1870. I have had a look for 65 St James Road on the 1871 Census and among the occupants is a George Stuart, his wife and two children. Mary Ann may have been living with them after James's death. Mary Ann may have died in childbirth or shortly after as metritis is inflimation of the uterus.

Eric

[Justjan]

i hadnt found any of them on a census till 1861 and no george came through or none i could see , but on the marriage cert it gave that addy ,
i didnt find her folks till 1871 at 71 st james road , could be George is one of witnesses , is there an age for him ,?
not certain but think Edward was born around May 1870 , would need to look through what i have , sorry it was 1871
i found this Edward on an english census , and he was the youngest as down as 6 months on poorhouse census ,
shooot thats where the children were it was on the census for 1871 grrrr i forgot that

Name: Edward Stewart
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relationship: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Renfrewshire
Registration Number: 644/12
Registration district: Gorbals
Civil parish: Glasgow Govan
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Nos 33-39 Buchan Street, Glasgow
Occupation: Labourer
ED: Carlton House Model Lodging House
Household schedule number: 1
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1901_317

[carlineric]

I think George is a red herring have traced him back to 1851 to Chapel of Garioch in Aberdeenshire and his parents are George and Barbara (confused ), but may be a relative.