Norries in Huntly

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:23 pm

Back again.

I overlooked the obvious.

Elspeth Norrie married Charles Lawrence on 20th April 1861 (for some reason I thought it was 1862)

Jane Norrie was born March 1862 (nearly a year later). So there is no way that Elspeth Lawrence is her mother!!!

Regards,
Annette

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:32 pm

Hello Annette,

well first hand here goes:

My now deceased auntie went to visit Jane and William Stevenson in about 1933. They lived in a place called Headrooms farm which is just outside Aberchirder (known locally as Foggyloan). I actually went there last week and spoke to the new occupants which was a thrill for me!
Anyway the first hand info was that she had three children before marrying. William Elizabeth and James. Two were born in Whitehills and my auntie and uncle went there as well at the time they visited the area.
I have Janes marrage cert and she declares her father as William Robertson (labourer) and mother Elsie Norrie. There is a witness called Maggie Robertson which may be her half sister of the Marrage between William and Elizabeth Smith.
I also have my grandfathers marrage cert (James) and he names his mother as "Jane Stevenson, formerly Robertson, MS Howatt". The Howatt bit has been cross checked and I know young James and sister Elizabeth spent time with his Grandparents George and Maggie Howatt in 1891. William, Elizabeth and James were all born of different fathers. in 1895 Jane seeks paternity for Elizabeth and the father is confirmed as James Mitchell from Portsoy. I do not know who the father of her first born is.
All of that is I believe fact and I have built on the rest.

I am seeing the sense in the likelyhood that Elspet#2 is the more likely mother to Jane and Susans explanation of why she ended up with her father age 9 in Whitehills is making more sense the more I think about it.

I have tried to draw it all our a few times now and I think I've just about got it. It is still difficult to grasp though

Is any of this fitting with any of you?

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:35 pm

Annette

Elspeth Norrie married Charles Lawrence on 20th April 1861 (for some reason I thought it was 1862)

Jane Norrie was born March 1862 (nearly a year later). So there is no way that Elspeth Lawrence is her mother!!!

How can you be so certain?
If she had been fathered by someone other than Charles how would it be recorded?

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:04 pm

Gloswegian wrote:Annette
Elspeth Norrie married Charles Lawrence on 20th April 1861 (for some reason I thought it was 1862)

Jane Norrie was born March 1862 (nearly a year later). So there is no way that Elspeth Lawrence is her mother!!!
How can you be so certain?
If she had been fathered by someone other than Charles how would it be recorded?

If she was married when she had a child who was not her husband's it would be declared on the child's birth entry.

Something like - Elspeth Lawrence or Norrie married to Charles Lawrence who is not the father of the child.

Regards,
Annette

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:44 pm

Gloswegian wrote:Hello Annette,

well first hand here goes:

I also have my grandfathers marrage cert (James) and he names his mother as "Jane Stevenson, formerly Robertson, MS Howatt". The Howatt bit has been cross checked and I know young James and sister Elizabeth spent time with his Grandparents George and Maggie Howatt in 1891. William, Elizabeth and James were all born of different fathers. in 1895 Jane seeks paternity for Elizabeth and the father is confirmed as James Mitchell from Portsoy. I do not know who the father of her first born is.
All of that is I believe fact and I have built on the rest.

Ok I'm really confused now. If Jane's maiden name is given as Howat where did you get Norrie from?

Sorry forget I said that - your next step should be is finding James's birth. What year was he born? Do you have his birth certificate?

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:54 pm

After a visit to NRH today there is no doubt in my mind that the Elspeth Norrie who gave birth to Jane IS NOT the Elspeth/Elizabeth Norrie who married Charles Lawrence.

Jane's birth gives no father, but her mother is stated as Elspet Norrie, farm servant. Had she been the Elspeth who married Charles this woudl have been on the birth entry - she woudl have been listed as Elspet LAwrence, wife to Charles LAwrence with somem additional note to the effect that the husband was not the fatehr of said child. That is the standard proceedure.

In additon, when Jane Robertson, who does appear to be in with a good chance of being Jane Norrie, but I've yet to see proof, she gives her parents as William Robertson (not John as was stated earler in this post) Labourer and Elsie Norrie, both deceased - thre is no m.s. given, therefore the couple were not married - again, standard stuff.

I think we need to go forward a generation or two and pick up where the info is solid, and with proof as I'm not sure this is even the correct family now, and then work back in time step by step, with proof at each step.

also have my grandfathers marrage cert (James) and he names his mother as "Jane Stevenson, formerly Robertson, MS Howatt".

We need to go back to this document and start again!

Best wishes
Lesley

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:04 pm

LesleyB wrote:After a visit to NRH today there is no doubt in my mind that the Elspeth Norrie who gave birth to Jane IS NOT the Elspeth/Elizabeth Norrie who married Charles Lawrence.

Excellent Lesley - I agree.

LesleyB wrote:I think we need to go forward a generation or two and pick up where the info is solid, and with proof as I'm not sure this is even the correct family now, and then work back in time step by step, with proof at each step.

Also agree - we're on the case.

Best wishes,
Annette

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:48 pm

Good grief. Never mind "Who do you think you are" this has taken me aback somewhat...Is there any info anybody needs from me to get this going? I feel a bit like a spectator now.

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:28 pm

Gloswegian wrote:Good grief. Never mind "Who do you think you are" this has taken me aback somewhat...Is there any info anybody needs from me to get this going? I feel a bit like a spectator now.

Definitely Gordon - have you found your grandfather's birth certificate?

If not - what age was he when he married and when?

Regards,
Annette

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:34 pm

Hi Gloswegian

I also have my grandfathers marrage cert (James) and he names his mother as "Jane Stevenson, formerly Robertson, MS Howatt".

This is the document you need to work from. From what you have quoted, this tells you that your grandfather's mother was currently called Jane Stevenson, (probably beacuse she had married a Mr Stevenson) she had previously been called Robertson (perhaps an earlier marriage, though there may be some other reason) and that her maiden name was Jane HOWATT.

I feel a bit like a spectator now.

Absolutley not! Give it a go with that info - it will have your grandfather's fathers name on that cert too perhaps ? Though just read your post and maybe not as straightforward...but you might start by looking for a marriage for that couple if likely, or try to find them in a census when your grandfather is a wee boy with his motther and perhaps father too?
If you need help with what to do, or if you get stuck, then SHOUT!

It is much more fun and more thrilling to find the info on your own, so we always try to encourage folk to do their own searching, but all of us get stuck sometimes, and that is where TS comes in, as many heads are usually better than one! Do not hestitate to post if you are stuck.

Best wishes
Lesley