Very odd gravestone...

[Kathykins]

I've got a very weird one here....

The McKenzie family I've been researching in Perthshire have been Blacksmiths at Craigie Hamlet, near Loch Clunie, since at least 1750. The furthest I've got back is Donald McKenzie, born 1771, who must have inherited the smithy from his father, because the local landowner who helped set it up died long before Donald was born.

Now, in Caputh graveyard is a stone which reads "Donald McKenzie, sometime smith in Craigie, erected this in memory of his wife and children." Annoyingly, there's no date or other names. The weird thing is, all the Donalds I have in my tree from 1770 onwards predeceased their wives.

Is it normal practice in Scotland to erect a tombstone BEFORE someone dies? Or leave provision for someone else to set up a memorial to someone else in your name after your death?

The other possibilty is that Donald had another wife I don't know about. He didn't marry until he was 39, which is quite late isn't it?

Is there anyway I can find out more about this stone?

And for the sanity of future generations, can I please ask that everyone makes sure their own gravestones have names and dates on them!!!!

[emanday]

Is it normal practice in Scotland to erect a tombstone BEFORE someone dies?

Whit? Pay for something before it's needed! Hivvin forefend

Or leave provision for someone else to set up a memorial to someone else in your name after your death?

Don't see why not.

He didn't marry until he was 39, which is quite late isn't it?

Not necessarily. It wasn't uncommon way back when for men to wait till they were in a position to offer a wife and future offspring a decent living.

And for the sanity of future generations, can I please ask that everyone makes sure their own gravestones have names and dates on them!!!!

I'll second that

[apanderson]

Hi Kathykins,

It was quite usual (in Stirlingshire anyway) for folk to buy a lair and put the date of purchase on it. It was maybe an 'investment' of sorts!!

I've discovered this time after time and initially couldn't think what was going on - the date didn't co-incide with the death of anyone listed on the inscriptions. I then thought it could perhaps be the death of a child . . . . ? It wasn't till I read through some Lair Records for various Churchyards that the date (usually inscribed at the very top of the stone) was the date the Lair/Plot was purchased. Mystery solved!

I'm not saying that this would definately be the case for your ancestors, but if there's a chance you could get a hold of Lair Records . . . . ?

Anne

[joette]

My Great-Grandfather cetainly made his gravestone.He was a Master Mason & it was already inscribed by him only the date needed adding when he died.
I too have a lair purchased adjacent to one my sister & husband have bought!-it's a long story!
So yes it's a possibility but a bit presumptous of him to think he would outlive both wife & children so maybe there was another wife & children.
The best place for info I have ever found is in Utah where the names,dob of all offspring,wives,husbands are inscribed on the back of the tombstone.

[DavidWW]

....snipped ............

Is it normal practice in Scotland to erect a tombstone BEFORE someone dies?

No !

Or leave provision for someone else to set up a memorial to someone else in your name after your death?

Yes !

....The other possibilty is that Donald had another wife I don't know about. He didn't marry until he was 39, which is quite late isn't it?

Not really, - I can quote you many examples of widowers remarying in their 50s and 60S ...........

David

[Kathykins]

There's certainly an OPR record for a Donald McKenzie married to someone else in Caputh before the records of McKenzie=Isles, which is my line. I'm not sure it's anything I can prove though - one of those intriguing puzzles I suppose. I hate those.

I'm relieved the hear that you don't erect tombstones before people die though - rather tempting fate isn't it....

[Mo-anne]

In Poland, it is not unusual to buy a plot in the local cemetry and erect your own headstone - complete with inscription ( space left for date of death only) !!! Some people even went as far as "Died 19xx" and ran into problems when they lived to year 2000 or beyond. The property pages also sometimes have a section of "graves for sale" - including "used " graves where the previous occupant has been exhumed to another plot....

Gives me the shivers.

Mo-anne

[tartantogs]

The old Kirkyard in Tiullicoultry next to the parish church has several stones which were erected when the lairs were bought. All have the date on the top and some have the initials of the husband and wife. Several members of the same family often bought lairs next to each other. When the graveyard was first opened many lairs were purchased in advance and several were never used as they had left the village beforwe they died.

[paddyscar]

A very warm welcome to TalkingScot, Tartantogs

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All the best,
Frances