Very definite brick wall

Alienore · Post by **Alienore** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:01 pm

Hello again

Well, I have a major brick wall that I'd love to crack. Only trouble is, the lady in question was decidely elusive about her details!

My great-great-great grandmother was born in Kingston, Jamaica. We have her in the census for Glasgow for 1841 - 1881 inclusive (she died in June of 1881). Her maiden name, as far as we can tell, was Eliza Howie. She 'married', as far as we can tell, an engineer called Robert Fisher and their son, also a Robert Fisher, is well documented (marriage & death certificates as well as death certificates for his wife and both sons). Her second marriage may have been in the early 1840s as she has a daughter with her second husband, John Ai(t)ken, around 1844. The daughter, Janet Fraser Ai(t)ken, was married in 1863 and I have plenty of documentary evidence for her descendants.

But Eliza - according to family gossip, she was of black (slave) descent and another family source believes she may have had connections with a Colonel in the Napoleonic period. Her death certificate does not name either of her parents and the slave registers in Jamaica are not as accurate as we might like. There are still indications of our exotic origins in my generation at least and I am very proud of her. She lived and died in some of the poorest parts of central Glasgow, including North and Richard Streets which no longer exist. We don't even know where she was buried.

We don't know how or when or where she came to Britain - did she come as a servant to a family, did she come as Robert Fisher's 'wife'? We can't trace Robert at all but he does appear on his son's certificates and on Eliza's death certificate.

We have no idea how or where to look for more information - the archives in Kingston had no trace of her and since we don't have parents for her I'm confused.

This lady is one I would love to know more about - she's absolutely fascinating.

Anyone got any brainy ideas?

Deborah

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:29 pm

The IGI at Family search] has a likely marriage:

JOHN AITKEN
Spouse: ELIZABETH HOWIE Family
Marriage: 31 DEC 1843 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Extracted marriage record

You didn't mention what age[s] she stated in the census forms - just to give a rough idea of her birth year.

Alienore · Post by **Alienore** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:08 pm

We reckon Eliza was born around 1819 to 1820 as she's apparently 61 when she dies in 1881.

I've got a copy of that marriage record but I'm still not one hundred percent convinced that it's our Eliza. The early marriage records don't record useful data like parents' names or names of previous spouses or witness details. Those pieces of information would have been so handy.

Why oh why didn't registration in Scotland start in 1837 like in England??

Deborah

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:22 pm

Alienore wrote:.

Why oh why didn't registration in Scotland start in 1837 like in England??

Deborah

Ah, but the Scottish records have much more information in them!

It may help to know when and where young Robert Fisher was born, just to pinpoint earlier movements.

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:09 pm

WilmaM wrote:
Alienore wrote:.

Why oh why didn't registration in Scotland start in 1837 like in England??

Deborah
Ah, but the Scottish records have much more information in them!

It may help to know when and where young Robert Fisher was born, just to pinpoint earlier movements.

Hi Wilma,

Hre they are in 1841. Later census records show Robert to be born at Glasgow.

Piece: SCT1841/644 Place: Gorbals -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 28
Civil Parish: Gorbals Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 28 Page: 12
Address: Eglinton St

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
HUNTER Adam M 40 Joiner Journeyman Outside Census County (1841)
HUNTER Elizabeth F 35 Outside Census County (1841)
HUNTER Stewart F 9 Lanarkshire Sex: Possibly male
HUNTER Mary F 5 Lanarkshire
HUNTER Elizabeth F 2 Lanarkshire
HUIE Eliza F 30 Outside Census County (1841)
FISHER Robert M 1 Lanarkshire

regards,
Annette

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:55 am

Hello Deborah,

This may not be relevant but there’s a marriage notice in the Glasgow Herald, Friday, March 8, 1850.

“At 43 (48?) Norfolk Street, on the 5th instant, by the Rev. J. S. Taylor, Alex. Wallace, Esq., plumber, to Mary, second daughter of the late Mr. Robt. Fisher, engineer, Glasgow.”

Just in case, and please let me know if you want the image.
Alan

Alienore · Post by **Alienore** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:34 pm

Well, I am absolutely delighted with the information you wonderful people have found for us.

Mum is thrilled with the census data for 1841 as that gives us specific dates to move on with.

Would anyone know if there are shipping records at the Mitchell for the period 1838 (when slavery was abolished) to 1840 showing ships with passengers from Jamaica to Greenock/Glasgow? We reckon that Eliza was a slave and that she was freed when the abolition came into effect.

If anyone saw the programme last week on 'Who Do You Think You Are' with Ainsley Harriott they will have a good idea of how weird and wondeful genealogical research in the West Indies can be.

Alan, if you can give me a note of the image of that marriage that would be great - I could at least check Mary Fisher's death certificate to see who her mother was although there's no guarantee that she is a relation.

Deborah

Post by **SarahND** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:41 pm

Currie wrote: “At 43 (48?) Norfolk Street, on the 5th instant, by the Rev. J. S. Taylor, Alex. Wallace, Esq., plumber, to Mary, second daughter of the late Mr. Robt. Fisher, engineer, Glasgow.”

This is the family in 1841. There is someone in the house born in "Foreign Parts" so maybe there is a connection? Although this Robert Fisher is married and already has a small son Robert.

South Coburg Street, Gorbals, Lanarkshire
Robert Fisher, 29, born Lanarkshire, Engineer
Mrs. Fisher, 25, born Lanarkshire
Mary Fisher, 7, born Scotland
Elizabeth Fisher, 6, born Scotland
Alexander Fisher, 4, born Lanarkshire
Robert Fisher, 2, born Lanarkshire
Robert Whitelaw, 25, born Foreign Parts, Shoe Maker
Mrs. Whitelaw, 29, born Scotland

All the best,
Sarah

Rach · Post by **Rach** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:58 pm

You probably have this already - from register of slaves, St Mary, Jamaica
name: Eliza Howe/Howa
colour: mulatie
age: 2
african/creole: creole
remarks: Fame [Mother's name?]
increase/decrease through: by birth
date: Sept 1820
I can havea look at the different Fames in St Mary, Jamaica if you don't have them already.
Rae

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:12 am

Hello Deborah,

That was the full text of the marriage notice. If you want the actual image (1.24MB) please send me a PM with your email address.

All the best,
Alan

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