Thomas or James Graham, born c1815/19

Rantskew · Post by **Rantskew** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:36 pm

Post moved here to a thread of it's own as was lost at the end of another post .LesleyB

lesleyb

Thanks for your speedy reply only been doing research for about six months and fined it fascinating and great fun.

My brick wall is Thomas or James Graham my g.g.grandfather.
he was born c1815/19 going by census fro 1841 to 1891. And I cannot find his OCR anywhere in Glasgow. His father John Graham was married to a Ann Dalton married in Carlisle in 1806.
On 8 of Thomas's entrys they said his name was Thomas and his wife as Catherine Brown but on one of the entries He is down as James Graham.

So my brick wall is, was he really Thomas or James or James was his real name but used his middle name James or was he really born in England and thats why I or scotfamtree couldn't find him.
This is the only one tha sft couldn't help me with but found an amasing 23 other ancestors in two days even got some certs emailed to me, Amazing!!

Rantskew

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:47 pm

Hi Rantskew

he was born c1815/19 going by census fro 1841 to 1891

Can you tell us where he was living for these census years. Where does he say he was born in the 51-91 census entries? - does it state Glasgow as his place of birth and that is why you have looked there? What ages for him were given at each census year?

On 8 of Thomas's entrys ..but on one of the entries He is down as James Graham.

Which entry states him as James? Marriage? census? death?

Best wishes
Lesley

Rantskew · Post by **Rantskew** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:43 am

Thanks for quick reply Lesley,

Its a bit late in the night for you to start anything, will go and find my Back Burner file, one of 12 lever arch files and will post your requested information tonight or tomorrow.

mant thanks and best wishes
Rantskew

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:47 am

Hi Rantskew
Ok, no problem! We'll still be here once you've found the lever arch file!!

Best wishes
Lesley

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:25 am

LesleyB wrote:Hi Rantskew
he was born c1815/19 going by census fro 1841 to 1891
Can you tell us where he was living for these census years. Where does he say he was born in the 51-91 census entries? - does it state Glasgow as his place of birth and that is why you have looked there? What ages for him were given at each census year?
SNIPPED

Best wishes
Lesley

He consistently states Glasgow as place of birth on all census records.

Interesting that only the children (of Thomas and Catherine) born after 1855 are indexed in the IGI.

Regards,
Annette

Rantskew · Post by **Rantskew** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:11 am

Lesley

Information as requested, all seems in order:

1851
Address: 289 Parliamentary Road
Age:31 c1820
Occupation: Block Cutter

1861
Address: 107 Parson St
Age:41 c1820
Occupation: Drssgner Aut Mnaline

1871
Surname spelt as Grahame
Address: 28 Sinclair St., Row, Dumbartonshire.
Age: 51 c1820
Occupation: Pattern Designer

1881
Address: 24 James St., Row, Dumbartonshire.
Age: 62 c1819
Occupation: Labourer, unemployed

1891
Address: 24 James St., Row, Dumbartonshire.
Age: 75 c1816
Occupation: Pattern Designer UE

Children’s names are all correct whole way through census 1841 to 1891.

On the OPR of Ann D their 2nd child he is James Graham all other children He is Thomas Graham including his wifes and his death certificates.
I have his death cert. which is correct as is everything else except I cannot find his birth certificate-entry??
thanks
Rantskew

Rantskew · Post by **Rantskew** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:15 am

nelmit wrote: He consistently states Glasgow as place of birth on all census records.

Interesting that only the children (of Thomas and Catherine) born after 1855 are indexed in the IGI.

Regards,
Annette

Hello nelmit

Does that mean anything?

thanks, Rantskew

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:01 am

Hi Rantskew

Occupation: Drssgner Aut Mnaline

Ancestry strikes again - it could only come from there....

On the OPR of Ann D their 2nd child

Can you tell us where and when Ann was born please?
I'm not sure I'd worry about the one error with his name. Sometimes it depends on things like: who was the entry before (sometimes names are muddled 'cos the names from the previous entry are still fresh in the session clerk's mind - it happens sometimes on post 1855 SR documents too), if he had a brother of that name whom the session clerk also knew..., what time of day it was (!) when the session clerk was writing up the books and if anything was distracting him (those young boys stealing his apples again, his wife shouting through that his dinnner is on the table...) or ....how many drinks he had had at the time.

If children do not show up in the OPR (the pree 1855 records) then it may suggest that they did not belong to the Established Church, and so it is possible that records for them may not show up in the OPRs and so might explain why no records are found for some families.

Best wishes
Lesley

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:30 am

I thought perhaps the family weren't part of an established church but I see the children are indexed at SP.

On having a closer look I see your dilema. There are 4 children indexed at the IGI to James Graham and Catherine Brown who match exactly with your family on the census.

Results for: Father: James Graham, Mother: Catherine Brown

1. ANN GRAHAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 27 APR 1844 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
3. MARY GRAHAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 18 DEC 1847 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
4. JOHN GRAHAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 15 DEC 1845 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
5. THOMAS GRAHAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 02 MAR 1850 Barony, Lanark, Scotland

Then these -

Results for: Father: Thomas Graham, Mother: Catherine Brown

1. Catherine Graham - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 01 MAR 1852 Barony Parish, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland (indexed at SP)
2. Andrew Wilson Graham - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 01 MAR 1854 Barony Parish, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland (indexed at SP)
3. JAMES BROWN GRAHAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 22 APR 1856 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
5. ROBERT MCNICOL GRAHAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 10 JUN 1858 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
13. JANET GRAHAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 26 APR 1842 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

I was starting to think they were 2 different people but the census records agree with the above.

Sorry this doesn't help much with your original query but thought I'd post it for anyone watching and could take it further.

Regards,
Annette

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:06 pm

How very odd. My instinct would be to check the OPR just incase there is anything there which helps us, but there may be no extra hints at all.

If going down that route, it is probably better to check the OPRs on microfilm so you can see them all without bankrupting yourself....!