Decoding a Marriage cert. for a N.Z. gunner after WW1

[bobandbryony]

Hi everyone

We were hoping that someone from New Zealand could help us decipher a marriage certificate from Scotlands People for 1919 in Edinburgh.

Our relative; Mary Helen Ross b 18th April 1889, married an Albert Ernst Thompson b about 1890 whose usual residence was (and please forgive us if we get it wrong) SHAUGAMAWER in TARANUKI. He was a farmer and a gunner in the N.Z. field artillery No 2/125 Y. We are positive that he returned home with his new wife - but the record shows that his parents James and Isabella Thompson M.S.Cochrane were both deceased by 1919.

We were able to find her death record on New Zealand BMDs in 1953 and have ordered it but are drawing a blank with his or any record of children.

If anyone can help with deciphering the residence or the normal format for soldiers numbers so that we could look for a war record we would be most grateful.

Thank you from a cold and wet England

Bryony abd Bob

[AndrewP]

Hi Bryony and Bob,

I think I have found the place on an online map for you. If I have it right, it is Whangamomona in Taranaki. That is in the west of North Island, New Zealand.

http://www.maplandia.com/new-zealand/ta ... ngamomona/

I had a look at the marriage certificate on SP and reckon his address is given as Whangamomona, Taranaki, New Zealand; present station Hornchurch, Essex.

If the truth be told, Whangamomona looks to be just outside of Taranaki, in Manawatu-Wanganui region. Whether the region boundary existed in 1919, I don't know.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Currie]

Hello Bryony and Bob,

I’m not particularly familiar with this but the Cenotaph database is claimed to include virtually all those who served in WW1 but I’m not sure exactly how right that is. http://www.aucklandmuseum.com/?t=130

When you get to the search page click on advanced search at the top right and you’ll see where you can search for a serial number, keyword etc. If you click on Search Names you’ll get the full list. At least you’ll get an idea of serial number layout even if you don’t find the fellow you’re after.

“During the First World War over 124,000 New Zealanders, almost 10 per cent of the population, joined the army. Of these, 100,000 served overseas and the high percentage who served on the front-line is reflected in the fact that they suffered 58,000 casualties, including 17,000 men killed.” http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-nz/nzef.htm See info re serial numbers at the bottom of the page – 2/ was Artillery.

Note the unidentified soldier probably from Whangamomona. There’s not much chance of telling whether he’s a Gunner seeing he’s lost his shirt.

Here are some NZ Military links to play with http://www.genealogylinks.net/newzealand/nzmilitary.htm

Here’s some info about NZ WW1 Military records
http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/personnel-records/nzdf-archives/

Hope that helps,
Alan

LATER
The Whangamomona Pub looks old enough for him to have visited.
http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&i ... 59,,0,-7.5

Alan

[bobandbryony]

Hi alan and andrew,

Thank you for your replies. We would never have got that name - I wonder how you pronounce it - with difficulty no doubt.

We have looked at some of your suggested sites already and feel they will be really helpful. I see what you mean about the pub. It reminds me of one in Freemantle W.A. before it was done up for the Americas Cup or should that be Australian Plate.

The statistics you mentioned are truly staggering and are horrific for all nations involved. To think that the vast majority were volunteers says a lot about the people of that time. Like all people doing their researches of this time period we have come across ancestors who died in the first world war and wondered about the impact on those they left behind. We have one relative, my wife's great uncle; Andrew Ross (junior) whose life and death was written up because he was a scottish rugby international in a book called "Roll of Honour" - 7 pages so too much to post here .It really makes fascinating reading. If anyone wants to see it let us know and we will email you a copy. There were of course 100 of thousands of personal stories and I suppose that part of why some of us do this research is to make sure that these type of storys are kept and told.

Thanks once again for your help. We know that our gunner (shirt or not) survived so hopefully there are some Thompsons out there in New Zealand for us to find.

Bob and Bryony

[theKiwi]

Thank you for your replies. We would never have got that name - I wonder how you pronounce it - with difficulty no doubt.

I'll take a crack at it, although likely won't write it out correctly..

Whan-ga-mo-mo-na

Wh - the wh sounds like f

anga - a sounds like it would in the word car or far

mo - like the start of the word motor

mo - like the start o the word motor

na - like the end of banana

This Wikipedia page mentions the loss of 51 men during World War I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whangamomona

Roger the Kiwi

[bobandbryony]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your replies.

The death cert. arrived from N.Z. and it transpires that Mary Helen Thompson nee Ross died on 8th July 1953 in Otewa Road Otorohanga. She had had three children born in 1921(boy), 1927(girl) and 1933(boy). No names or children or informant.

Contacted an absolutely brilliant man in the Rotary Club in Otorohanga who has made every effort to locate the children but without success.

The father had had "age 29" on his wedding certificate in 1919 so was born in 1990 unless he lied about his age to get in the army but no obvious death record can be found.

Don't quite know where to go from here - anyone got ant ideas?

Will keep trying.

Thanks again

Bob and Bryony

[Currie]

Hello Bob and Bryony,

That doesn’t sound like a very helpful death certificate. New Zealand death certificates are supposed to be very comprehensive although it looks as if it’s normal for children’s names not to be included. http://www.exploregenealogy.co.uk/NewZe ... cords.html

Information on a Death Certificate
Prior to 1875, there wasn't a great deal of information on the death certificate - simply where and when the person died, their first name and surname, sex, age and rank or profession, along with the cause of death, a very brief description of the deceased, where he lived and the name and signature of the registrar. For genealogists this offers some basic knowledge of the person, but it's spare on the detail you really need.
After 1875, things improve for anyone tracing family history, as death certificates became very full. As well as the information above, the certificate now contained the cause of death, the duration of the last illness, the name of the doctor and when he last saw the person, as well as the name of the deceased's father and mother (including her maiden name), when and where the deceased was buried and even the name and religion of the minister or witness. However, some of the most important new facts for a genealogist are how long the deceased had been in New Zealand, where he was born, where he'd married (including to whom and at what age) and the number and sex of the children. You can find plenty there to spur on your research in several different directions.
In 1912 the death certificate was amended yet again, adding the deceased's place of residence, how long had elapsed between the start of the final illness and death, and the widow's age (if she was still alive).

Was there burial information? Maybe that could provide some leads. Was the cause of death fairly normal or was there a possibility of an accident?

Was there a street number in Otewa Road? It starts at Otorohanga and is about 20 kilometres long. Seems to be rural and/or semi rural. This is the start. http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&i ... 7,,0,12.49

Alan

[bobandbryony]

Alan,

Thanks very much for this, we will be following up on the website you suggest but in the meantime were fascinated to see the google map of Otewa Road - sometimes technology is wonderful!!

Bryony

[bobandbryony]

SUCCESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An email arrived this morning providing details of two LIVING children of Mary Helen Thompson Ross.

The place names on the certificate (just for completeness) were probably Hawera Taranaki which was probably just too much for the Edinburgh registra in 1919.

So we will be on the phone tonight to speak to them. wow

Thank you all very much for your help. Bryony and I are new to family research - we started exactly a year ago -but today's email is to me what it is all about.

Bob and Bryony

[theKiwi]

SHAUGAMAWER in TARANUKI

and

The place names on the certificate (just for completeness) were probably Hawera Taranaki

No, I think AndrewP had it right in the second post in this thread - Whangamomona, which is just outside present day Taranaki, but quite possibly in the "old" Taranaki Province. The current "Manawatu-Wanganui didn't exist in 1919.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... =UTF8&z=11

Roger