Scotlands People Copywrite

[kenspeckle]

Hi Folks I have my tree on Ancestry kept private and not to be found by people searching as its just for family however a family member that I allowed access the tree has taken the certs that I got form Scotland's People and put them on her tree which is public it says on hers that the image was taken from my tree I am pretty sure that the copywrite for SP says you may Not have those images on a public place like Ancestry which is another reason I keep my tree private
i.e. excerpt
Visitors to this website may not copy, distribute, sell or publish any of the Crown copyright material downloaded or copies from this website. For the avoidance of doubt, no permission is given for the transfer of any of this material to an open internet site. Such use of the material requires the formal permission of the Queen's Printer for Scotland.


I have written twice to her to point this out and asked her either to remove or to make tree private ( no reply ) I have no objection to sharing them with her but I am concerned about her having them on display for anyone who uses Ancestry to also take and display which I am sure will happen and they all link back to me I am going to write and ask SP but thought first I would ask if folk here have an understanding of the situation regards lesley in Tasmania

[paddyscar]

Hi Lesley:

It's sad that a kindness has caused such a breach of trust.

You are correct in your understanding about the SP copyright. It is indeed illegal to distribute or publish these images downloaded from SP. and I don't think Ancestry would take kindly to such a breach of copyright either.

Since you have asked her to rectify her error and she's not had the courtesy to comply, I see no reason why you shouldn't contact SP explaining the situation and ask for their guidance.

All the best,
Frances

[ninatoo]

Or at least make sure you have kept copies of the emails requesting her to remove them....because it may be your only proof that you have tried to do the right thing. Then tell the cousin you have kept copies, and inform that the onus of blame will be on her if Scotland's People take it further. (Not sure if that is legally the case, but it may just scare her into taking them off the site.)

Nina

[Currie]

Hello Lesley,

I don’t think that SP are carefully scanning the internet looking for copies of images that they originally sold to someone else. They’re more interested in selling the same item over and over again. You could always ask the relative to remove the reference to yourself and just forget about the images.

It seems to me that you were part of a process that led to the material being copied to a closed site and then distributed to someone else who then published it on an ‘open’ internet site. But is Ancestry an open Internet site? Do you need a subscription to access the Ancestry trees, whether public or private? How would one define ‘open internet site’?

In my totally unqualified opinion you may either both be equally in breach of copyright under the copy, distribute or publish terms or both totally innocent. Bringing SP into what is just a family disagreement has the potential of making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

That’s what I think,
Alan

[kenspeckle]

Hi Allen
No its not a family disagreement as such she is new to genealogy and in her own words "I have just picked up connections through the internet - no certificates or anything" Possibly I should have said to her when I gave her access " please do not put any of the images on your tree online as they are copy write to SP" but it dies say quite clearly on the image that it is crown copy write
I am being a bit concerned as communication was fast until I explained to her about the copy write aspect asked her to take the images off her tree if she was not going to make it private and I was not nasty about it in any way
there are other trees with the same family public but with little information that will I am certain also take the images from her still public tree and so it will snowball

and yes Allan I agree I am also certain that SP do not go looking for copies of their images however there is copy write in place on the images and if they are put on an open internet site without their permission it is an infringement and there are rules in this world whether we like them or not


as to what open internet site is defined as legally I do not know.......Yes you do pay for Ancestry to access but as my tree was private and set also not to come up in a search I did not consider this to be an open internet site
this is why I asked here first as there are many in Talking Scot who could possibly know I will ask SP what their

I have no problems in sharing what I have found at all but when a person takes an image from another tree in Ancestry it says at the side of the image who it was originally submitted by in this case it is me "Guilty M'Lud "!
If any person wants to put copy write images that they obtained on the web thats not my concern even though it is the wrong thing to do .... but when It comes from me it is
regards lesley

[Archiver]

Contact Ancestry about it - say that you have requested images to be removed from a tree but that this has not happened. I've heard people do this with photographs which have been copied without permission. Don't involve Scotlands People just yet!

[trish1]

Hi lesley

I have seen many images that I thought may be considered under copyright posted on public trees on Ancestry. Part of the "ancestry uploading conditions" contains the following

You should submit only content which belongs to you and will not violate the property or other rights of other people or organizations. We are sensitive to the copyright and other intellectual property rights of others. Be aware that content, including photographs, even if submitted to a site of which you are a member, belongs to the creator or submitter and you should not reproduce it without permission of the owner and that photographs of living individuals must not be posted without their consent

but in many instances this is probably ignored. I would think it likely, similar to e.g. youtube - it is up to the copyright holder to object. As you are not the copyright holder, and you did not upload the images (well to a public tree), I would think it would be futile to take it further with anyone, apart from your relative.

I have exchanged much information with near and distant relatives, but realise full well I have no control over what they do with the information. I usually ask that they don't publish information on living relatives (no doubt sometimes ignored), but otherwise do not see that I can place limits on their genealogy activities. Perhaps in the future, if you wish to ensure your images are not posted online you can simply provide transcripts (online or offline) rather than copies of certificates/images of same.

Trish

[kenspeckle]

just to clarify I have no intention of taking it up with SP in that sort of sense I am only going to ask what is the policy as I am unsure of what the copy write actually means and whether its ok to put them on my tree if its private
and if they say no then I will remove them I did have a sort of niggle that I should not be but thought as it was private then it was similar to me having them on my tree at home but when my cousin was given access to my tree then put on their public tree I became concerned as then they were out there and it was quite different and they do actually have crown copywrite on them but also the date and time that they were downloaded from SP ie my account so I'd be in a way responsible..... and as my wee mum used to say if you did something wrong.." you were not brought up like that "

regards lesley

[Kathy]

Hi Lesley,

We should all be sharing your concern about displaying family trees on the web & copyright.

I would assume that including SP information on a PRIVATE tree on Ancestry is ok, but when you gave access, and your cousin made the information public, the responsibility of copyright infringement remains with you

As previously suggested, you should keep a copy of the emails to your cousin requesting the removal of the copyright content, and also contact Ancestry to ask if this content can be at least hidden from your cousins public tree.

In the Q/A section of Ancestry, they state copyright is the responsibility of the submitter, and that permission has to be obtained, this was more in regard to World Tree Project, not personal tree submissions.

Kathy

[kenspeckle]

Hi All is well my cousin has removed the certs she said she just did not think as she was so excited to see them

It has also made me think and I am going to take the safe course and remove mine and just have a transcription of what is on them (a big job ahead there )
It can be a good thing or a bad thing having a tree online so many aspects to consider
as you are so proud of what you have found and really do want to share what you have achieved I have spent every day since 1998 researching and spent quite a lot of money along the way as well as countless hours
but I do love the hunt !
I really do think that in this modern age people should respect copyright and at least should ask permission and also credit the source of what they find as one would ask if it was a physical image or record that great auntie had in her house but this seems to change when people see things on the web they assume that its there for the taking when really it should be no different to contact the person who has the info and ask "is it ok for me to have a copy of this for my family tree and I will add a note that you were the source of this image" ect ....
Thank you all for your replies I really do appreciate

regards lesley