What is meant by the term "Master, No Man"?

[rosieb]

I have a Baker, Gardener and a Taylor in my family tree and in the various 19th century, census's their occupations is recorded as Baker (Master no man), or Gardener (Master no man). Does anyone know when this expression came into use and why it is different from Journeyman. Thankyou

[SarahND]

Hello rosieb,
My guess is that they had risen to Master status in their trade, but that they did not employ any others. I have seen many that were something like "Master, employing 2 men, 1 boy" or the like. Someone else will chime in with another answer, perhaps, but that would be my interpretation.

All the best,
Sarah

[Hibee]

I would like to chime in with the same answer.

Hibee

[Russell]

Hi Rosieb

I agree with Sarah and Hibee but must admit that when I read your post my first thoughts were 'Where were they living ?' and 'What type of social environment were they in ?'. A baker living in a small village might be able to meet the needs of his local customers without any assistance. A gardener working for 'the big house' might have a whole squad of gardeners under him but if he was employed by a family who wanted their garden to not only look good, but probably produce enough fruit and veg for the household they would want a properly trained man for the job. I would immediately start looking for the local gentry in that community tp try and figure out who he worked for. Sometimes the middle name they give a child can offer some clues.

Russell

[rosieb]

Thanks so much for all your replies, seems to make sense! The baker, John Reid, living in Irvine in the 1851 census was a (Master baker no man). He took in his orphaned nephew John Mc Neil, (my g grandfather) who is described as a baker (Journey Man). His other nephew Donald Mc Neil, who lived in the small town of Dreghorn, became a (Master Taylor, No Man). The master gardener John Reid, also "NO MAN", lived and worked on the Blair estate in Dalry and then on the Cunninghame Head estate in Ayrshire.

Regards, Rosie B

[Russell]

Hi Rosie B

Thanks for giving us the additional information. It makes perfect sense. Irvine was just a small fishing village so John Reid would meet all the local needs.
Small estates would not have extensive gardens although they might employ gamekeepers and woodsmen too.

I'll bet you had fun trying to locate John Reids in Ayrshire My wife is related to a line of Reids from Kilwinning and tracking them down was a nightmare. Ayrshire has loads of Reid branches and only use a very limited list of forenames.

Russell

[rosieb]

You are so right about the Reids of Ayshire Even the John Reids! It was the "lassies" that gave me the connection, all 8 of them. Thought their names were a bit uppity for the family of the gardener including a Charlotte, Magdalena and Isabella with Blair as her middle name. Found their names among the ladies of the Big Hoose in the Blair estate in Dalry, as you suggest! (Such deference).Their 9th child was a son and of course he was named John Reid. It was he who was the baker in Irvine and brought up my G Grandad John Mc Neil when his big sister Charlotte Reid died young.

Cheers-

Rosieb

[Russell]

Hi Rosie B

We now have 21 John Reids in our tree but not one Charlotte or Magdalena.
I have come to the conclusion from all I have read that sometimes it was deference to the Laird but in other cases there appeared to be genuine regard between master and employee with real concern shown for the employees family and financial assistance given for medical care and childbirth expenses. There were some philanthropists about.

Russell