Help with replacing Fathers lost Scottish Birth Certificate

[ryandonz]

Hello,

My names is Ryan and I live in Sydney, Australia.

I am in the process of applying for a UK passport as fortunately qualify as my father is born in Scotland. However my father has lost his original Birth Certificate and I will need this to apply. He was born in the 1950's in a town called Paisley within Scotland.

I have been Googling some websites to try and re-obtain an offical birth certificate such as:
http://www.bmd-certificates.co.uk/ - along with many other websites which offer birth certificates.

However I was quite suspisious, as in Australia there would be no way a business could send out birth certificates without being regulated by the Government so it brings me to ask some questions.

1) Does anyone know where I can obtain an official birth certificate for my Father?
2) Is the law different in the UK in relation to businesses such as the one above and others that can be found by Googling 'Scottish Birth Certificate' and are they allowed to offer this type of service?
3) Has anyone been in a similar situation and how did they go about retrieving their birth certificate.

Kind regards,
Ryan

[Montrose Budie]

Hi Ryan

Anyone or any company can buy Scottish birth, marriage and death certificates.

Online at the GROS (General Register Office for Scotland) website, ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk , a certificate costs £12.

Companies like http://www.bmd-certificates.co.uk/ simply use their expertise of the Scottish system to do the ordering for you, and charge you £25 for the priviledge ! So far such companies are not regulated.

To get a copy of your father's birth certificate, simply go to http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, - the real official guvmint website, - locate your father's birth in the index, and order the £12 copy, at that cost ! ........

Any probs PM me.

mb

[trish1]

Hello Ryan

I'm also in Australia - I recently bought a certificate from ScotlandsPeople http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/welcome.aspx - takes about 4 weeks to get to Australia. There are no restrictions on access to certificates in Scotland - very different to Australian regulations.

You will need some credits at SP (cheapest buy is 7 pounds worth) to access the index to buy the certificate. I'm happy to help with that if you have no other need for information from SP (you might find it interesting to use the credits to check your Scottish family history details) - we can exchange email addresses via PM if I can help.

With the current exchange rate the 30 credits would cost about $11 and the certificate just under $20 - in total still cheaper than the cost for certificates in most states of Australia.

Trish

[Russell]

Hi Ryan
And can I say Welcome to TalkingScot. How's that for service though We can't always offer instant answers but we have lots of knowledgable folk across the world so if you have othe questions about your family and their ancestors we love trying to answer them.

Russell

[ryandonz]

Hello Montrose, Trish and Russell.

Thank you for your replies.

I have purchased 30 credits and have conducted the search on my father birth certificate. As I am new to the site I just want to make sure I'm ordering the right thing!

I found my fathers birth records and clicked on the green 'order' botton, within the page titled 'Your SR Births Search Returns'. Afterwards it was added into my shopping basket with the item:

"<Date after 1911> DONNELLY, <first names removed> (Statutory Births <ref removed>) StatutoryRecordBirth £12.00 £12.00"

Is the above item the official birth certificate for my father which will include full details of his mothers name and fathers name? The reason being, I need this document to apply for my British passport.

I will await your reply before ordering just to make sure.

Thank you all so much for your help. And the community here is great.

Kind regards,
Ryan Donnelly
'

[Montrose Budie]

Hello Montrose, Trish and Russell.

Thank you for your replies.

I have purchased 30 credits and have conducted the search on my father birth certificate. As I am new to the site I just want to make sure I'm ordering the right thing!

I found my fathers birth records and clicked on the green 'order' botton, within the page titled 'Your SR Births Search Returns'. Afterwards it was added into my shopping basket with the item:

"<Date after 1911> DONNELLY, <first names removed> (Statutory Births <ref removed>) StatutoryRecordBirth £12.00 £12.00"
Is the above item the official birth certificate for my father which will include full details of his mothers name and fathers name? The reason being, I need this document to apply for my British passport.

I will await your reply before ordering just to make sure.

Thank you all so much for your help. And the community here is great.

Kind regards,
Ryan Donnelly
'

Hi Ryan

Assuming that your father is <first names>DONNELLY and that he was born in Paisley in 19**, then this will get you the official document that you need.

Ignore the "01/01/19**" - that doesn't mean the date of birth or date of registration; all it means is that the year involved was 19**.

BTW, are you sure that you don't also have to prove that your grandparents were Scottish, i.e. had UK nationality, via their birth certificates ?

mb

later: several edits in the last sentence.
mb

[trish1]

Hi Ryan - as mb says you have it correct (as long as you have the right person), it is a certified copy of a birth certificate - your father's parent's names will be on the certificate, also when & where he was born (and when/where his parents married). From SP - the heading above the green order button is "extract"
What is an extract?
An extract is an officially certified copy of a statutory register entry or copy of a parish register entry or census page and can also be called an official certificate.
Extracts of births, marriages and deaths are used for legal purposes or for formal applications such as passports.
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Conte ... ?r=554&412

- and you also have 29 credits left if you need other information about your family - mother/grandparents and beyond.

I think you have the rules correct - it used to be - long ago - that any native born Australian could claim British citizenship. Somewhere it changed and you had to have a British born grandparent - and in the early 1980s it changed again & became a British born parent. A relative of mine got a British passport in the 1970s via his English Grandmother - the rest of his ancestors came here before 1830.

What I thought was a little weird - despite I couldn't get a British passport or permanent residency when I was in London a few years ago - I was eligible to vote. I was disappointed that there was not an election while I was there.

Enjoy your travels

Trish

[StewL]

Ryan, thanks for the question. It reminded me to apply for my own birth certiicate. I had some problems last year using my extract for identification. When I was renewing my working with children card, they would not accept my extract, luckily on the day I had enough other identification. Funnily, my work photo id, (in child protection) wasn't worth a great number of points.

[ryandonz]

Hello All!

I have successfully received my fathers birth certificate as an extract in the mail today! I then proceeded to take it to the post office as in Australia this is the method and only method the UK government allows us Australian's to apply for a UK passport within Australia. ...to my absolute amazement they knocked back the document saying that an extract of my fathers birth certificate is strictly not accepted when I'm applying for a UK passport. He even turned the computer screen around the show me this clearly. The only way I'm able to prove my dads birth is to show the original document!?

Now....how is this possible as he has lost the original? The document is over 55 years old and is no where to be found, how can it be possible to produce this?

Is there anyway to order an 'original' document, even though this cant be possible as the original was lost....? If you can hear what I'm saying?

[Montrose Budie]

This cannot be correct, since your father has lost the original copy, and, as far as I'm aware, your extract is the equivalent of the original, as it is a fully legal and authorised copy of the original entry in the Register of Births, which is exactly the same as the 'original' given to whoever registered the birth.

In other words no-one has an 'original' of their birth certificate. All that they ever have is a copy of the entry made in the Register of Births, either given to the informant at the time of registration, or, as in your case, some decades later. The former is no more valid than the latter!


If they keep on knocking you back I suggest that you contact the Registrar General for Scotland at the address given on the GROS website, and seek his comments and advice.

(Don't bother with any UK embassy or consulate in OZ, as my experience is that their knowledge of a matter like this is severely limited.)

mb