Patrick and Rose Farren

[gwennypenny]

Hello I am trying to get the parents names of Rose McGonigle and Patrick Farren.They were the parents to my GREAT grandmother. When i finally found him all it always hows is his kids info (ellen farrwen my great grandmother) .I cant find a marriage certi or birth certi for either patrick or rose.
here is the link
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5XM-4LH

can anyone help?
Hi name is Patrick Farren
Married ? rose Mcgonigle
then had ELLEN, CATHRINE and other kids
ellen is my great grandmother who then they ? or she moved to scotland...which is where she had my grandmother.
I have lots of scottish credits but cant find them there either.

gwen

[Elwyn 1]

Statutory recording of births and of RC marriages only started in Ireland in 1864, so you won’t find a birth cert for Patrick or Rose. And if they were RC and married before 1864 you won’t find their marriage listed in the stat records either. You would therefore need to rely on church records. I don’t think any RC records for Donegal are on-line anywhere. However the records for the RC parish of Moville for the years 1847 – 1880 have been copied and are held in PRONI, Belfast. MIC1D/55. (If you can’t get to PRONI you would probably need to get a researcher to look them up for you).

I had a look in the stat records for marriages 1864 onwards, but couldn’t see it, at least not within the Inishowen registration district (which covers Moville).

It would do no harm to get Ellen’s birth cert to get the townland (address) at that time to help trace the family through that information.

If Patrick & Rose had any children born in Scotland then the date and place of their marriage would normally be recorded on the marriage cert.

[gwennypenny]

Thankyou
I do have ellens birth cert. I may never know then Patrick and rose birthdates? Death dates or parents names

[Elwyn 1]

You certainly won’t get their birthdates from any statutory record, and if they were born in Moville parish before 1847, then it doesn’t seem likely you’ll get them from church records either. Likewise for their parents names. Even if the marriage is in the RC parish records, it’s not certain you’ll get the parents names from that source. RC records in the 1800s often had just the couples names and that of the 2 witnesses. That was all that canon law required. Occasionally their townlands and sometimes the groom’s occupation are mentioned but they didn’t always record the names of parents.

If you know where they are buried, you might get information from a gravestone (if they have one) and you could look for a death certificate if you have some idea of when they died. 15 people named Rose Farren died in the Inishowen registration area between 1870 & 1920. You can eliminate a few by age. That leaves 4 born between 1826 and 1843 who might be the one you are looking for. You could order all 4, and since you should have the family townland from Ellen’s birth cert, that should tell you which is the right one.

Looking for Patrick’s death will be harder as the name is much more common, especially in that area, but if you find Rose’s death, it’ll give you her marital status and from that you’ll know whether Patrick was still alive at that point. And so whether to search forwards or backwards from that date.

Bear in mind that Irish death certificates are the same as English ones and are not as helpful as Scottish ones. That is to say they don’t contain the deceased’s parents details, or even their spouses name, unless the spouse happens to be the informant.

Irish death certs are not on-line like Scotlandspeople. You need to order them from GRO Roscommon. There is a photocopy option which costs €4 per cert, provided you give them all the details they need (including the place, year, quarter, volume & page number). If you want to order one/all of them and need help, let me know and I’ll explain how you do it, and where you get the reference details from.

Have you looked for the family in Griffiths Valuation?

[nelmit]

Although it doesn't help much with parents of Rose and Patrick I wonder if this is the family in 1901 at Clare, Donegal.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... e/1185269/

The ages of Catherine and Madge (Margery?) are near enough and the IGI shows them as born at Clare, Donegal.

The 1911 shows Catherine (I think the age given as 56 is an error) as Kate Havlin with a wee Rose Havlin age 5 who was born in Scotland. A check at SP shows a Rose Havlin born at Greenock in 1905.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... re/495468/

Saying all that though the names are pretty common in Donegal and I can't find a Hugh or Isabella born to Patrick and Rose.

Where did Ellen live when she came to Scotland?

Regards,
Annette

[Elwyn 1]

Griffiths Valuation for 1857 shows 3 Farren farms beside each other in Clare (all near Mount Hope). Easy enough to locate today, should you wish to do so. They were headed by Cecily Farren who had a house, offices (outbuildings) and 7 acres of land (plot 16); John Farren with a House, offices and 8 acres (plot 17) & James Farren with a house, offices and 19 acres (plot 19).

The same 3 farms were still there, headed by a Farren, in the 1901 & 1911 censuses.

PRONI in Belfast has the estate papers for John Farren who died in 1907. You would need to contact them for a copy of the papers. Here’s the abstract, which is on-line on their site:

Administration (with the Will) of the personal estate of John Farren late of Clare Castlecary County Donegal Farmer who died 9 July 1907 granted at Londonderry to Thomas Farren Farmer. Effects £46 2s. 11d.

The current Irish phone book has a Joseph Farren and an E. Farren listed as residing in Clare, Donegal. Presumably descendants of the above families.

[gwennypenny]

Thank you all very much. I'm going to read and print out all ou have given me and suggested. Patric and rose did have a daughter Catherine . I will look it all over thank you again