DNA evidence
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Orlaith17
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DNA evidence
I'm not sure which part of the forum this should go in, but General Discussion seemed as good a place as any. When I first started my genealogical research years ago, I read an article that Oxford (I think it was Oxford) University was doing DNA research. You could order a kit, take a swab from your cheek to send back, and they would tell you which of the original tribes (I think there were four?)you came from. I decided against it at that time. Just curious now to know if anyone here has any information about this sort of research. Or has anyone taken part in such research?
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SarahND
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- Location: France
Re: DNA evidence
Hello Orlaith17,
At the beginning of this year I sent in a DNA sample and it has been very interesting to see the results. I ordered both a Mitochondrial DNA test (mother's mother's mother's etc. mother) and an Autosomal DNA test (called "Family Finder" on FamilyTree DNA, where I had the test done.)
The maternal line takes you back to very early origins, which sounds like what you are referring to (mine turns out to be Haplogroup V (the clan of "Velda" in the book The Seven Daughters of Eve). It is interesting in a way, but not really relevant to anything in the recent genealogical history.
If you are male, or can convince a brother, father, uncle, cousin, etc. to swab their cheeks for the family, you can have the Y-DNA test done that follows the surname from father's father's father's etc. father. Sometimes there are surprises here, what they call a "non-paternity event" when the father turns out to have not been who one supposed… But it is often useful to break through brick walls on the paternal side, if another branch has better documentation than what you have been able to find and you end up matching their DNA. There has been a breakthrough like this in my mother's father's line that clarified some confusing generations and allowed us to go back much farther. So in that case it was very useful.
On another line (the Stewarts
) we have partial matches all over the place, but nothing definitive. It has sent my research bouncing all over Scotland and Northern Ireland, every time my male cousin on that side gets another promising looking match!
What I feel is the really interesting test (and can be taken by either males or females) is the recently developed Autosomal DNA or, on the Family Tree DNA site it is called the "Family Finder" test. There are several parts to it, but the most useful for genealogy is the list of matches. When you log in on the site with your kit number and password you can see a list of the other people who have taken the test who match your DNA in various places. Some of the people have provided lists of surnames in their ancestry which helps see where the relationship must have been. A few provide family trees. Other people give no information. You can then go on the chromosome matching page and see exactly where they match you on which chromosome and for how long a segment and compare that information with your other matches. Since the match can be on any branch of your family, going back more or less reliably to about 5th cousin level, it is often difficult to figure out exactly where the common ancestor is. If there are multiple, say, 8th great grandparents in common, it makes the match look more recent than it is as well.
I don't know how much you have read about genetic genealogy, but CeCe Moore has written a very helpful series of articles describing the various DNA tests for genealogists. Here is the link to the first one on Y-DNA:
http://www.geni.com/blog/dna-testing-fo ... 75984.html
At the bottom you can click on the link to continue to the next topic. The article in the series on the autosomal test is here:
http://www.geni.com/blog/dna-testing-fo ... 76261.html
It's another way to look at your family history and can give hints where you might search to get the documentation to break down a brick wall.
All the best,
Sarah
At the beginning of this year I sent in a DNA sample and it has been very interesting to see the results. I ordered both a Mitochondrial DNA test (mother's mother's mother's etc. mother) and an Autosomal DNA test (called "Family Finder" on FamilyTree DNA, where I had the test done.)
The maternal line takes you back to very early origins, which sounds like what you are referring to (mine turns out to be Haplogroup V (the clan of "Velda" in the book The Seven Daughters of Eve). It is interesting in a way, but not really relevant to anything in the recent genealogical history.
If you are male, or can convince a brother, father, uncle, cousin, etc. to swab their cheeks for the family, you can have the Y-DNA test done that follows the surname from father's father's father's etc. father. Sometimes there are surprises here, what they call a "non-paternity event" when the father turns out to have not been who one supposed… But it is often useful to break through brick walls on the paternal side, if another branch has better documentation than what you have been able to find and you end up matching their DNA. There has been a breakthrough like this in my mother's father's line that clarified some confusing generations and allowed us to go back much farther. So in that case it was very useful.
On another line (the Stewarts
) we have partial matches all over the place, but nothing definitive. It has sent my research bouncing all over Scotland and Northern Ireland, every time my male cousin on that side gets another promising looking match!What I feel is the really interesting test (and can be taken by either males or females) is the recently developed Autosomal DNA or, on the Family Tree DNA site it is called the "Family Finder" test. There are several parts to it, but the most useful for genealogy is the list of matches. When you log in on the site with your kit number and password you can see a list of the other people who have taken the test who match your DNA in various places. Some of the people have provided lists of surnames in their ancestry which helps see where the relationship must have been. A few provide family trees. Other people give no information. You can then go on the chromosome matching page and see exactly where they match you on which chromosome and for how long a segment and compare that information with your other matches. Since the match can be on any branch of your family, going back more or less reliably to about 5th cousin level, it is often difficult to figure out exactly where the common ancestor is. If there are multiple, say, 8th great grandparents in common, it makes the match look more recent than it is as well.
I don't know how much you have read about genetic genealogy, but CeCe Moore has written a very helpful series of articles describing the various DNA tests for genealogists. Here is the link to the first one on Y-DNA:
http://www.geni.com/blog/dna-testing-fo ... 75984.html
At the bottom you can click on the link to continue to the next topic. The article in the series on the autosomal test is here:
http://www.geni.com/blog/dna-testing-fo ... 76261.html
It's another way to look at your family history and can give hints where you might search to get the documentation to break down a brick wall.
All the best,
Sarah
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Orlaith17
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:50 pm
- Location: Highlands
Re: DNA evidence
Thank you for this very informative response, Sarah. I do indeed have a brick wall on one side of my tree, with a bit of disagreement amongst some relatives about names of 2 x great grandparents. There is also some disagreement over the origins of one of our family names. On the surface of it, we come from Ireland. But the colouring, bone structure etc of so many relatives on that side suggests maybe earlier origins are from somewhere different. The surname itself has caused confusion with two relatives having been asked if they came from Egypt! At the end of the day, I am well aware that this sort of research is most unlikely to provide any positive proof of relationship. But I will be taking a closer look at the links you provided, as I admit, my curiosity is now more stirred than ever.
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SarahND
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5647
- Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
- Location: France
Re: DNA evidence
Hello Orlaith,
You have just reminded me of another aspect of the Autosomal test, which is a breakdown of the percentages of your DNA that match sample populations around the world. This part is still in beta and its results a bit controversial (and some say to be taken with a large grain of salt!) but if you do have origins outside Ireland and Scotland it might show here.
As an example, and to show how even siblings differ in their inherited DNA, I had my two sisters tested also with the following results in the "Population finder":
-I turned out to be 98.59 % "Orcadian" and the rest something undefinable, smaller than the margin of error.
-One of my sisters is 99.28% "Orcadian," so the most Scottish/English (or whatever this really means in the context!) of the three of us.
-My other sister, however, is 95.91% Orcadian and 4.09% "Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian Jewish or Mozabite" which is the source of a great deal of hilarity and speculation in the family as to her (our) Bedouin ancestor (perhaps why we keep traveling!)
I think I can pinpoint the only possible family line where this could come from, but it is a brick wall after our 2nd great grandmother. Encouragingly, we also closely match a number of other people of this surname (many of whom are also facing a similar brick wall) and there is a surname study group set up to analyze everyone's results and try to get somewhere. It is interesting!
Well, it keeps me out of trouble
Best wishes,
Sarah
You have just reminded me of another aspect of the Autosomal test, which is a breakdown of the percentages of your DNA that match sample populations around the world. This part is still in beta and its results a bit controversial (and some say to be taken with a large grain of salt!) but if you do have origins outside Ireland and Scotland it might show here.
As an example, and to show how even siblings differ in their inherited DNA, I had my two sisters tested also with the following results in the "Population finder":
-I turned out to be 98.59 % "Orcadian" and the rest something undefinable, smaller than the margin of error.
-One of my sisters is 99.28% "Orcadian," so the most Scottish/English (or whatever this really means in the context!) of the three of us.
-My other sister, however, is 95.91% Orcadian and 4.09% "Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian Jewish or Mozabite" which is the source of a great deal of hilarity and speculation in the family as to her (our) Bedouin ancestor (perhaps why we keep traveling!)
I think I can pinpoint the only possible family line where this could come from, but it is a brick wall after our 2nd great grandmother. Encouragingly, we also closely match a number of other people of this surname (many of whom are also facing a similar brick wall) and there is a surname study group set up to analyze everyone's results and try to get somewhere. It is interesting!
Well, it keeps me out of trouble
Best wishes,
Sarah