kilts

allsmyths · Post by **allsmyths** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:36 am

i was surprised that no one came up with the answer to my question what ltartan would a smith of campbeltown wear,i have never been to scotland so i know very little about the clans if that is the right way of saying it ,now i know i have scottish roots i would like to know which is the right tartan can anyone help,point me in the right direction. best wishes john smyth

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:09 am

Hi John

There is a simple answer....... A SMITH wouldn't wear a tartan. Tartans have become associated with particular family lines originating in the Highland part of Scotland and you would need to find out what other clan associations the name Smith links to.
e.g. My surname is lowland and has no clan links but 2 generations back there are strong McKenzie ties on the female line so I can claim McKenzie as my tartan. I have no clan connections on the male side but have strong geographic links to Caithness so I could claim a link to the Sinclairs.
Tartans are a fairly modern idea ( within the last 150 years!!) Previously families wove plaids dyed with the available natural dyes from their area so many of the colours from a region would be similar but not a formal tartan. In the 1600's and 1700's having your personal army in somewhat similar 'uniform' was useful but not essential but since all the clanspeoplefrom that area were all using the same dye colourings it just happened anyway.
The process was formalised to some extent by the military in the Highland regiments but it took Queen Victoria's fascination with Scotland to generate a formal set of patterns for tartan.
The Philabeg was the poor mans attire and bore no resemblance to the formal evening dress kilt rig-out that the poseur class wear now.
Sorry that the Smiths don't have an official tartan but there are no 'official' tartans anyway. It's good for the Scots image so we don't discourage it. What you could do is design your own and register it.

Russell

rdem · Post by **rdem** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:17 am

Russell: I have to disagree with you there is a Smith tartan, google "tartan finder" . I have even sold some.
However , John much of what Russell said about is very true, while there is a tartan for the Smith name that doesn't mean that it represents some ancient clan. There are new tartans made up each year. Anyone who has the resources can have a tartan designed and registered and manufactured. When one looks up Smith for a clan the usual association is with MacPherson and MacKintosh, two clans in the same geographic area. So the name was probably prolific in that particularly area. However, I have to think that since Smith is the oldest documented surname in Britain that there was Smiths in every clan especially those in centuries past that followed the occupation. I mean someone had to make those claymores and targes for all the different clans.

As Russell mentioned clan tartans are a recent invention tartans prior to that they were district tartans, and were probably determined by what roots and berries they had available for dyes. My personal take on tartans is to wear a district tartan for whatever area your ancestors originated, if more than one just pick one. I believe that you only wear a clan tartan if your surname is the same or a sept of that clan and sometimes the sept as in Smith there can be from more than one clan. Hopefully, here 's where your personal ancestry will help determine which clan your name is a sept.

For myself I could wear 4 of the 32 county tartans of Ireland, as well as two or more generic Irsih tartans, my father's ancestry (these Irish tartans were only registered in 1996) , a Grampian Tartan, my mother's ancestry, or Strathclyde tartan where I wa born. I do have a kilt with a tartan which I helped design that was designed for our local highland games.
I am thinking though, that next kilt that I would like just a plain saffron or blue solid colour for it.

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:02 pm

Hi RDEM

The point I was trying to make was not that there is.....or isn't a particular tartan but that the majority of tartans are of recent invention/design. Anyone can register a tartan and many have only been registered in the past 50-60 years. There was (may still be...) a shop on Princes Street in Edinburgh which had a list of tartans the height of the balustrade post outside on the steps. Last time I saw a similar list it would have been about 7 feet tall.
Even corporate bodies are inventing tartans to represent their Scottishness. I don't disapprove at all. Tartans have a wider appeal than the Saltire.
I just wonder what our remoter ancestors would have thought about it all!
I am more interested in the dyeing and weaving side of it.

Russell

allsmyths · Post by **allsmyths** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:16 pm

thank you both russell and rdem iread your message and as i understand the from what you say i can wear any kilt i liketalking to a friend who is of scottish birth he says i can claim the mcdonald kilt because my g grandmother was a mcdonald and ican wear a mctaggart as my maternal grandmother was a mctaggart, getting very confused ithought these were all part of the mcdonald sept i think i have a lot to learn about my scottish ancestors and i thought my irish lines were confusing lol well thanks both of you for your time and advice i am greatfull. best wishes john smyth

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:33 pm

Hi John
Now you can look at the designs and colours and pick the one you like best. Sounds like you have a good valid claim to both of them.
Kilts are very flattering!

Russell

rdem · Post by **rdem** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:39 pm

Yes Russell! the kilt is flattering and very forgiving for men of girth such as myself <smile>

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:15 am

Modern trartans are exactly that - "modern"

- do a Google for George IV and Edinburgh, to find the info on his visit there in the early 1800s. It was Sir Walter Scott that we have to thank for his research and conclusions regarding "highland dress"

, - just make sure that you include the pink tights

The distinguishing factors between clans in battle and otherwise were, firstly, one of the few Scottish Gaelic words to come into English, - the slogan, - and, secondly, the plant symbol that they wore.

Although there are folk who will tell you otherwise and threaten you with expulsion from their society if you wear the "wrong" tartan, if you see a tartan that you really like, then wear it. Or you could consider joining the clan association of which I'm a founder member which takes exactly that latter view, - The Clan MacHoughmagandy Association

Very reasonable annual subscription, - apply to me by email.............

David