Malcolm Peters - Murderer But Insane

darylrodger · Post by **darylrodger** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:07 pm

Hi,

I have an ancestor belonging to my hubby's side of the family, who was tried for murder in Sept 1902, and found to be guilty but insane. He was aquitted, but ordered to spend time 'during his majesty's pleasure'.
Would he be detained somewhere in an asylum in Glasgow ?

Where should I look to find any records ?

Daryl

Post by **Liz Turner** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:21 pm

Hi there Daryl

You might get some leads from the NAS site:-

http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/crime.asp

My first thought that being detained at his majesty's pleasure would mean prison - perhaps Barlinnie?? Today serious cases are tired at the High Court so I presume this might have been the case back then too.

Liz

Post by **emanday** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:33 pm

Strictly from memory, (and not from personal or ancestor experience I hasten to add

)...

The Insane Asylums I know of that Glasgow folk sometimes went to were;

Gartloch Hospital
Glasgow Royal Asylum
Goven Insane Asylum
Lennox Castle, and
Crichton Asylum.

If your rellie was sent there in 1902 for an indeterminate period the record, even if available, might not yet be publishable under the 100 year rule, unless he was released before 1905/6.

I'm sure some of the more knowledgable folk on here will be able to tell you where available records can be obtained.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Hi Daryl
Many of the Barlinnie records (lists of date of entry, height, etc) are held at NAS. As far as I remember (dinnae ask how I know this!!) you have to order them in advance from West Register House. NAS code for the Barlinnie indices etc. is: HH21/70. Duke Street priosn is HH21/32/ You can view prison records from the 1930s - some from the 1940s, not sure where the cut-off is.

Best wishes
Lesley

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:40 pm

Hi Daryl

There is a Glasgow hospitals archive but I can't find the URL for it.

The main hospitals where there were secure sections were
Gartloch
Gartnavel
Woodilee
Hawkhead (later renamed Leverndale)
I think all were up and running by then but the archive site will give history for each.
Detained 'during His Majesty's pleasure' was an indefinite sentence( even if found 'not guilty') meaning that the person could only be released from secure hospital accommodation with the express, written permission of the Secretary of State for Scotland. It was worse than a life sentence because there was no time limit and they were kept in locked wards.

Russell

Post by **Liz Turner** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:44 pm

At last - soemthing I know!! and further to Russell's post - the Greater Glasgow Health Board archive is held at Glasgow University:-

http://www.archives.gla.ac.uk/gghb/default.html

It also contains some records from Paisley for anyone searching that area.

Liz

Post by **emanday** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:46 pm

Found this on NAS: It's the actual case entry for your Malcolm Peters.

http://www.dswebhosting.info/NAS/dserve ... Date='1902'))

RefNo Title Date AccessStatus
Details AD15/02/84 Precognition against Malcolm Peters for the crime of murder at Main Street, Cambuslang 1902 Open
Details JC26/1902/62 Trial papers relating to Malcolm Peters for the crime of murder at Main Street, Cambuslang. Tried at High Court, Glasgow

RefNo Title Date
AD15 Crown Office Precognitions (20th Century) 20th century

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CountryCode GB
RepCode 234
RefNo AD15/02/84
Repository National Archives of Scotland
Title Precognition against Malcolm Peters for the crime of murder at Main Street, Cambuslang
Date 1902
Accused Malcolm Peters, Age: 42, blacksmith, Address: Cambuslang, Origin: Native of Blantyre
Victim Alexander Whyte, shop, Main Street, Cambuslang
AccessStatus Open
RelatedRecord JC26/1902/62

Tried to open the various links on pages, but they were taking too long to load, even on broadband. Good Luck

darylrodger · Post by **darylrodger** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:39 pm

Hi Everyone,

I thought I'd let you all know that I've finally found out what happened to Malcolm. I visited the NAS in Edinburgh today, and discoved some info regarding the outcome of his trial etc.

After being found guilty of murder (but insane at the time) he was sent to Perth prison for 11 years. After being deemed safe he was released under condition to Cornton Vale, for 4 years. He was finaly released to the care of his son Alex in 1918. The irony is he was always considered 'sane' when he was detained in Perth, and only showed any mental instability in his later years. Apparently, the judgement handed down by Lord Murray was considered quite contravsersial at the time, and caused social comment at the time in the press.

Thanks to all those who gave advice etc.

Daryl

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