mariners deaths prior to registration .....

maggie · Post by **maggie** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:20 pm

Hi can anyone suggest where to look for merchant seaman's deaths prior to 1855 ?i am looking to find a death for a Samuel Oliver who was alive in 1841 in Bute but then disappears I know he was dead by 1855 as his wife re married then .I've checked the MI's for Bute with no joy.any help would be appreciated regards maggie

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:03 am

maggie wrote:Hi can anyone suggest where to look for merchant seaman's deaths prior to 1855 ?i am looking to find a death for a Samuel Oliver who was alive in 1841 in Bute but then disappears I know he was dead by 1855 as his wife re married then .I've checked the MI's for Bute with no joy.any help would be appreciated regards maggie

Maggie

This can be a very complicated area at times, and I can't do much more than refer you to "My Ancestor was a Merchant Seaman" by Christopher T Watts & Michael J Watts, and "Records of Merchant Shipping and Seamen" by Kelvin Smith, Christopher T Watts
& Michael J Watts.

I can't recall if the general registrar for marine BMDs was set up in London before 1855. Even if it was, there's the potential complication in relation to death records that the maximum info recorded was that contained in the English civil records.

Davie

maggie · Post by **maggie** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:40 pm

Hello Davie
thankyou for replying it is appreciated i will follow your advice and have a look for the books to see if they shed any light on the subject though knowing my luck he was a fisherman as it seems a lot of my ancestors gained various "fancy" titles in different certificates .thanks once again regards maggie

jdships · Post by **jdships** » Fri May 06, 2005 2:52 pm

Good afternoon Maggie,
Prior to the introduction of Civil Registration in Scotland in 1854 there was no laws or official procedures covering the recording of births and deaths at sea.
Worth looking at the "Kirk Session Minutes" for the parish your man lived in.
I have had limited success on "maritime deaths" with this source.
Regards.
John

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Fri May 06, 2005 7:16 pm

maggie wrote:Hello Davie
thankyou for replying it is appreciated i will follow your advice and have a look for the books to see if they shed any light on the subject though knowing my luck he was a fisherman as it seems a lot of my ancestors gained various "fancy" titles in different certificates .thanks once again regards maggie

John

Was it not the case that the Registry of Shipping and Seamen held by GRO in London records lists marine birth and death returns from 1837 to 1965? Marine records came into existence under the provisions of the 1836 Act and were continued to be made under subsequent legislation.

If it was clear the subject of the entry was Scottish, then details should have been passed on to GROS from 1855 onwards, but it wasn't necessarily always clear that the subject of such an entry was Scottish or had a Scottish domicile, so that it could be worthwhile checking the GRO records in London?, never mind what might exist between 1837 and 1854?

Davie

maggie · Post by **maggie** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:15 am

Hello Davie&John
thanks for your messages i have tried to obtain the books that you recommded davie at the library without success .so i will have to explore other methods of obtaining copies.I will try the GRO's in London as far as i understand it i need to find a ticket number relating to Samuel Oliver and then it would be possible to obtain any records that relate to him .which leads me to your reference to kirk session records John you say about the area in which they lived so i will try to contact Ayrshire records to see if they hold kirk session records for Bute.
thank you for your help it is appreciated regards maggie

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:17 am

maggie wrote:Hello Davie&John
thanks for your messages i have tried to obtain the books that you recommded davie at the library without success .so i will have to explore other methods of obtaining copies.I will try the GRO's in London as far as i understand it i need to find a ticket number relating to Samuel Oliver and then it would be possible to obtain any records that relate to him .which leads me to your reference to kirk session records John you say about the area in which they lived so i will try to contact Ayrshire records to see if they hold kirk session records for Bute.
thank you for your help it is appreciated regards maggie

Maggie

Records for Bute will come under the current authority which is Argyll and Bute, the HQ for which library is in Dunoon, - see the Libraries section here for contact details, - but note that the web site wasn't working y'day when I tried.

Davie

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:43 am

The following are the Kirk Session papers for the county of Bute(shire) that are known to survive. They are all held at the National Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh.

NAS online index wrote:RefNo.....Title......Date......AccessStatus
Cumbrae Parish (islands of Great Cumbrae and Little Cumbrae)
CH2/80 Cumbrae Kirk Session 1730-1932 Open
CH3/1031 Cumbrae Free Church, United Free 1843-1921 Open
Kilmory Parish (Isle of Arran)
CH2/214 Kilmory (Isle of Arran) Kirk Session 1702-1956 Open
Kingarth Parish (Isle of Bute)
CH2/219 Kingarth Kirk Session 1648-1942 Open
CH3/1270 Kingarth, South, Free Church, Kilchattan Bay United Free 1873-1922 Open
CH3/969 Kingarth (Ascog) Free Church 1853-1898 Open
Lochranza Parish (Isle of Arran)
CH2/1063 Lochranza Kirk Session 1891-1969 Open
North Bute Parish (Isle of Bute)
CH2/947 North Bute Kirk Session 1870-1956 Open
CH3/865 North Bute Free Church 1877-1893 Open
Rothesay Parish (Isle of Bute)
CH13/22 Rothesay U F Church 1930-1961 Open
CH2/890 Rothesay, High, Kirk Session 1658-1942 Open
CH2/891 Rothesay, Gaelic, Kirk Session 1859-1918 Open
CH2/892 Rothesay, St. John's Kirk Session (the former New church) 1949-1973 Open
CH3/1542 Rothesay, Craigmore United Presbyterian, United Free and High Church of Scotland 1882-1952 Open
CH3/486 Rothesay Free, United Free and Trinity Church of Scotland 1841-1999 Open
CH3/486/5 Names of parishioners of the parish of Rothesay who declared their determination to leave the established church if necessary 4 January 1843 1843 Open
CH3/487 Rothesay, Chapelhill, Gaelic Free Church, United Free St James's Church of Scotland 1867-1938 Open
CH3/970 Rothesay, West Free Church, United Free 1843-1979 Open

Some of them can be excluded by date. If they were on the Isle of Bute, rather than generally in the county of Bute(shire), then you can ignore the Cumbrae and Arran parishes.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Sat May 07, 2005 7:28 pm

maggie wrote:Hello Davie
thankyou for replying it is appreciated i will follow your advice and have a look for the books to see if they shed any light on the subject though knowing my luck he was a fisherman as it seems a lot of my ancestors gained various "fancy" titles in different certificates .thanks once again regards maggie

Hello Maggie,

According to his son's application to the poorhouse (see my reply to your post Chalmers Family,) Samuel was indeed a fisherman.

Regards,
Annette M

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat May 07, 2005 8:10 pm

DavidWW wrote:Records for Bute will come under the current authority which is Argyll and Bute, the HQ for which library is in Dunoon, - see the Libraries section here for contact details, - but note that the web site wasn't working y'day when I tried.

Web address had changed - now updated on the TalkingScot libraries page.

http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/content/l ... ?s=797&a=0

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

TalkingScot.com

mariners deaths prior to registration .....

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